Helmets-all or nothing.?

[Matt]

Take responsibility for you own actions, and make your own decisions.

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

.....I think it is a major worry.....

Jon it isn’t a major issue, it is a possible outcome, but not likely
Think on this, seat belts will stop you going through the window in an accident but might prevent you getting out fast in the event of a fire or going into a flooded river
Would this stop you using them no, because on balance it is safer to use them than not, but in certain instance they are dangerous. Same applies to a helmet.
Having said that I’m still not sure that a helmet is really necessary on a rib unless you are racing or going too fast Des

[The Jackeens]

Originally Posted by MadMat

Take responsibility for you own actions, and make your own decisions.

Agree with that!

Would just add in to that guidance

look after each other !

missus

[Jimbob]

Yes lets look after each other. Jackeens like the tree!

[tcwozere]

Originally Posted by MadMat

Take responsibility for you own actions, and make your own decisions.

yep.. Haven't got a helmet, don't want one.. Are those who are advocating a helmet as a safety advice also gonna be wearing body armour like the jet skiers?? Fat lot of good a helmets gonna do you if you break your neck/spine in a spill..

[The Jackeens]

Originally Posted by Jimbob

Yes lets look after each other. Jackeens like the tree!

Cool Jimbob. Courtesy of Tony (tcwozere) above

missus Santa wears a fur trimmed hat to keep his ears warm

[DGR]

Originally Posted by tcwozere

yep.. Haven't got a helmet, don't want one.. Are those who are advocating a helmet as a safety advice also gonna be wearing body armour like the jet skiers?? Fat lot of good a helmets gonna do you if you break your neck/spine in a spill..

I got a Gecko cos I almost banged my head on the console when playing out in 'interesting' conditions - and realised that if I'd have hit my head I could have been in trouble. But I only wear it sometimes...generally if...

(1) I'm on my own...

(2) It's really bumpy and getting a bit hairy...

(3) or if it's raining - which is when I use it the most!! It's like being indoors...

D...

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

Des


would you want to wear a helmet that could have the potential to snap your neck like a twig if you went into the water at speed?

I know I would not and am sure many other feel the same.

We may just have been lucky so far that the right, if that's the best choice of words, crash has not happened to cause death by head injury or bucketing.
I don't want to be the first, not the best thing to have on your tomb stone.


Whilst it wonderful for Stu and I to be in agreement I don't want to kiss him either!

Regards

The bucket effect doesn't happen with a Gecko because it's open face more than anything else. I don't think a Gecko open face is really going to be any safer than any other kind of open face - the bucket effect will not happen - especially if you are wearing goggles without a visor!!!

The problem then comes that if the helmet is ripped off it isn't going to do it's MAIN job which is what happened to that poor kid.

Obviously a full face will give the most protection BUT could suffer from the bucket effect - and yet what do most racers wear? Full face!!!

I think on a closed cockpit boat it has to be full face - on an open boat like a RIB then maybe open face - in which case a motorbike or whitewater type helmet is just as good as anything else - yes there is a risk from hitting the console or whatever but most people tend to be thrown clear.

[Rogue Wave]

I am not advocating the use of helmet as mandatory, and I generally don't wear mine, however if I feel like having a go at the rough stuff then I tend to wear it and it tends to be somewhere on my boat somewhere if I need it. in fact exactly the same as Dylan

What I am advocating is if you want to wear a helmet then wear the right one and not a Cycle helmet!

I was out on the Avon today without a helmet, but the Avon is a big lad and doesn't get to affected by the sea.

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by codprawn

yes there is a risk from hitting the console or whatever but most people tend to be thrown clear.

that's the problem they don't ! particularly on a rib the passengers can have a right hiding in the case of a collision usually from the steelwork

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

that's the problem they don't ! particularly on a rib the passengers can have a right hiding in the case of a collision usually from the steelwork

A lot depends on the type of accident I suppose. When the Ocean dynamics RIB capsized everyone was thrown clear - helped a lot by the fact they were sitting on the tubes. The MAIB praised the firm for getting everyone to wear canoeing helmets even though there was no legal requirement to do so.

On the other hand full face helmets would have saved the people on the RIB that hit the unlit bouy in southampton or similar.

I really think that ANY helemt is better than none at all. Obviosuly full face is best and if you really want to avoid the bucket effect don't use a strap - they fit pretty snugly anyway!!!

It is all down to choice - don't see many cyclists or horse riders wearing full face unless they are doing extreme sports.

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by codprawn

It is all down to choice - don't see many cyclists or horse riders wearing full face unless they are doing extreme sports.

you don't see many of those fkkrs wave hopping either!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

you don't see many of those fkkrs wave hopping either!

No they just have things like trees and rocks to cope with - not to mention lamposts and cars!!!

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by codprawn

No they just have things like trees and rocks to cope with - not to mention lamposts and cars!!!

Don't see many of thos fkkrs wave hopping either!!!

[Jon Brooks]

I am not saying we must all wear a helmet.
For the most of us it is down to us to choose what we use.
I wear one coz it suits me and it works for me.
If it does not work for you then that also fine.

What concerns me, me as Jon Brooks, is that the racers out there are going to be forced to wear something that may have the potential to kill them!

Regards

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by codprawn

The bucket effect doesn't happen with a Gecko because it's open face more than anything else. I don't think a Gecko open face is really going to be any safer than any other kind of open face - the bucket effect will not happen - especially if you are wearing goggles without a visor!!!

The problem then comes that if the helmet is ripped off it isn't going to do it's MAIN job which is what happened to that poor kid.

Obviously a full face will give the most protection BUT could suffer from the bucket effect - and yet what do most racers wear? Full face!!!

I think on a closed cockpit boat it has to be full face - on an open boat like a RIB then maybe open face - in which case a motorbike or whitewater type helmet is just as good as anything else - yes there is a risk from hitting the console or whatever but most people tend to be thrown clear.

To answer some of the above -

Gecko don't just make open face helmets - all the racers that I know of wear full face ones. The Gecko straps are designed to fail in case of "bucketing" so that it doesn't rip you head off.

As far as closed cockpit boats are concerned you show a total lack of knowledge once again .......... ALL closed cockpit boats have full 5 point race harnesses and without exception everyone uses open face helmets - why? Because you wouldn't be able to fit the air supply into your mouth without taking hour helmet off!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Cookee

To answer some of the above -

Gecko don't just make open face helmets - all the racers that I know of wear full face ones. The Gecko straps are designed to fail in case of "bucketing" so that it doesn't rip you head off.

As far as closed cockpit boats are concerned you show a total lack of knowledge once again .......... ALL closed cockpit boats have full 5 point race harnesses and without exception everyone uses open face helmets - why? Because you wouldn't be able to fit the air supply into your mouth without taking hour helmet off!

I am well aware Gecko also make full face - as you wear one yourself. You must admit though that many racers wear full face that are NOT made by Gecko and they don't seem to be headless!!!

BEFORE you are so scathing in your attacks I suggest you get your facts right.

Even if I HAD made a mistake there is no need to be so caustic about it!!!

There are many classes of powerboating that use closed cockpit with full face - and there are plenty of breathing systems designed for full face helmets!!!

Granted with a 5 point full face becomes a little less important but in the event of a canopy breaking then it could still be a lifesaver.

Here is a photo of some F1 powerboat drivers - note the helmets.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I am well aware Gecko also make full face - as you wear one yourself. You must admit though that many racers wear full face that are NOT made by Gecko and they don't seem to be headless!!!

BEFORE you are so scathing in your attacks I suggest you get your facts right.

Even if I HAD made a mistake there is no need to be so caustic about it!!!

There are many classes of powerboating that use closed cockpit with full face - and there are plenty of breathing systems designed for full face helmets!!!

Granted with a 5 point full face becomes a little less important but in the event of a canopy breaking then it could still be a lifesaver.

Here is a photo of some F1 powerboat drivers - note the helmets.

I don't see anywhere in my post about people getting thier heads ripped off if they didn't wear a Gecko - it's just a possibility, and it is one of the potential problems that Gecko have answered.

If they are as you say F1 drivers and they are drivers of closed cockpits where is their air supply fitted to - as you can see some of them have open faced helmets with masks for an air supply. You stated that closed cockpits HAD to have full face helmets - Whilst I was at the (American) World Offshore Championships recently not one crew had full face helmets - neither does any V24 crew I have ever seen or Class 1 offshore crew either for that matter - but I'm sure you'll be able to find some photos somewhere with your search capabilities!

Have you ever wondered why you provoke such replies? Perhaps it's because you make statements as if your are an authority on just about any given subject, and then make errors which show rather gaping gaps in your knowledge!

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Have you ever wondered why you provoke such replies? Perhaps it's because you make statements as if your are an authority on just about any given subject, and then make errors which show rather gaping gaps in your knowledge!

Could not have said that better myself!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Cookee

You stated that closed cockpits HAD to have full face helmets - Whilst I was at the (American) World Offshore Championships recently not one crew had full face helmets - neither does any V24 crew I have ever seen or Class 1 offshore crew either for that matter - but I'm sure you'll be able to find some photos somewhere with your search capabilities!

Have you ever wondered why you provoke such replies? Perhaps it's because you make statements as if your are an authority on just about any given subject, and then make errors which show rather gaping gaps in your knowledge!

Actually I said " I THINK it has to be" which means I wasn't too sure!!!

I think half the problem is the way people PERCEIVE what I say and don't actually READ what I say.

I was not pretending to be ANY sort of expert on helmets - it is not an exact science and open to debate which we were having in what I thought was a quite constructive manner!!!