High speed ferry collision south of Jersey

martini · 28 March 2011, 11:08

Had my marine vhf receiver on at work at 7.30 this morning, listening to the CG weather forecast, when it got interrupted by a mayday from Condor Vitesse. She reported colliding with a fishing vessel just to the east of the Minquers reef while on passage from St. Malo to Jersey.

Persons were reported in the water and the only other vessel in the area was another fishing boat that was 30 mins away. So I jumped in the car and headed for my boat in case I could help but after sitting in the rush hour traffic for ages, the Vitesse's tender had picked up 2 persons and the fishing boat had the third.

I started making my way down to the casualty anyway with viz at about 1mile but half way there with about 7 or 8 miles to run I hit a bank of thick fog where viz was 20metres so rather than become another casualty I headed back to the harbour.

The 3rd person was in the water for quite a while, maybe half hour, sounds like he's in a bad way. There was a french helicopter on scene to lift him to hospital but the weather made that impossible so St Helier lifeboat brought him back to Jersey, arriving 45 mins ago. Condor Vitesse just arriving in St. Helier now.

Cue large amounts of paper work...

Channel Ribs · 28 March 2011, 11:45

Last I heard viz was down to 15m!

I believe none of the fishermen had lifejackets on, a lesson here perhaps - in fog things can get bad with no warning at all.

Anchorhandler · 28 March 2011, 11:57

Cue an MCA and MAIB inspection then cue an incredible amount of paperwork...
I would make a bet and guess she was still at full speed of at least 35+ Knts! Even if the Viz was decreasing or poor.

Hopefully I will be proven wrong.

Same thing on the Solent with the RedJets not decreasing speed in fog.

Simon

martini · 28 March 2011, 12:00

Good luck trying to get a fisherman to wear a lifejacket!

Interested to know what the Vitesse crew were looking at if they weren't looking at their radar. Saying that, it may have been quite a small vessel, I get the impression they weren't even aware they'd hit anything until they were notified by a passenger on the aft deck

Anchorhandler · 28 March 2011, 12:15

She (along with the Express) is fitted with 'high speed' 10cm radar. This has a much faster emit/receive rate than a standard 10cm set. It's also more sensitive. (but not 100% infallible admittedly)
The company as a whole put too much pressure on the bridge team to maintain the schedule... That's where it falls down.
Simon

martini · 28 March 2011, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anchorhandler

too much pressure on the bridge team to maintain the schedule

36.5 knots in 20m viz is taking the p!ss no matter how good your radar is

Channel Ribs · 28 March 2011, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by martini

Good luck trying to get a fisherman to wear a lifejacket!

An interesting lesson for us powerboaters!

And I wasn't specifically talking about lifejackets.

martini · 28 March 2011, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Channel Ribs

An interesting lesson for us powerboaters!

And I wasn't specifically talking about lifejackets.

You might have to get a price on a garmin radar

Channel Ribs · 28 March 2011, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by martini

You might have to get a price on a garmin radar

Was your FLIR any good in the soup this morning?

martini · 28 March 2011, 12:49

I didn't try it but the range is too short really to be much use in collision avoidance

chewy · 28 March 2011, 12:51

Your thermal imaging would have come into it's own if you were on scene.
Good of you to make the effort fella.

Anchorhandler · 28 March 2011, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by martini

36.5 knots in 20m viz is taking the p!ss no matter how good your radar is

Yes, as my previous post indicated, I couldn't agree more!
I wasn't trying to defend the bridge team's decision to not slow down further but I was trying to convey the point of over-reliance on electronic nav aids.
The increased confidence given by such aids coupled with the pressure of maintaining the service unfortunately leads to the wrong decision being made. In this case with obvious disastrous results.

What I will also say is that nowhere in the rules does it say to slow down to a prescribed 'set' speed whilst in fog or poor Viz. It simply says to reduce to a safe speed based on the conditions.
Now I can vouch that an Incat like the Vitesse can (by performing a 'crash stop') stop herself with incredible force throwing you clean of your feet.... Even from full speed. it may be partly based on this that the decision was made to not reduce speed further as 36 knots was wrongly deemed a 'safe' speed.

I have long argued for the need for more stringent 'risk assessments' to be performed and then justified to the authorities to maintain these vessels high speed craft certificate. It you thing of 2000tonnes of aluminium carrying upti 900 odd passengers literally flying along at nearly motorway speeds where not one of the passengers is strapped in..... Well you get the picture...

Simon

Never the

martini · 28 March 2011, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy

Your thermal imaging would have come into it's own if you were on scene.
Good of you to make the effort fella.

My unit would have limited capability but a more powerful commercial unit would be a great asset to the RNLI. The thing I still don't understand is why they haven't got AIS transponders?

With 2 RNLI boats being tasked, there was almost constant radio traffic with both boats reporting current lat/long positions, headings and speed back to Jersey CG. If they had AIS then Jersey would have all that, up to date and be able to visualise it on their screen.

Xk59D · 28 March 2011, 13:50

unfortunately one dead according to this-

http://www.channelonline.tv/channelo....asp?ID=493614

cheers

martini · 28 March 2011, 14:16

Very sad, that's 2 dead in these waters in the space of a couple of weeks

gotchiguy · 28 March 2011, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by martini

36.5 knots in 20m viz is taking the p!ss no matter how good your radar is

Fully agree. And with Simon too, the schedules that they try and keep to are crazy. In summer, the rade at St Malo is chocka with pleasure boats and every man and his dog is out on the water, not only does the Condor come charging through at 30knts+ (bear in mind the rade is <400m wide) but the wash it creates is immense and hugely dangerous to all the small canoes etc that are out on a summers day. The wake it creates causes a huge amount of issues for the local sailing clubs and for 20+ mins each time one arrives/departs there is carnage on all the beaches nearby.

We have all seen the way they charge around, they will make their 35knts whatever the conditions and regardless of fog.

Hat off to you Matt for making the effort.

Channel Ribs · 28 March 2011, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by martini

Very sad, that's 2 dead in these waters in the space of a couple of weeks

Erin · 28 March 2011, 15:21

According to the AIS log, the Vitesse was southbound at the time and doing 9kts in advance of the collision. Perhaps not so cavalier after all.

Channel Ribs · 28 March 2011, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erin

According to the AIS log, the Vitesse was southbound at the time and doing 9kts in advance of the collision. Perhaps not so cavalier after all.

I read 36.6kn 16º 2011-03-28 06:40

Erin · 28 March 2011, 15:42

There's clearly something odd about the AIS log, as I've got 9.4kts 0658 at 191deg