High tech kill cords - the next generation?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Starovich

the one person who's mind was change by it being a law may have been the husband or wife in this tragic incident.

I don't think you read the report. I don't think there was a "change of mind" it was an oversight. Oversights will still happen.

[steco1958]

Originally Posted by j.i.wilson

supposing every new engine came with a blue tooth (type) radio, ie short range

supposing every new engine came with a toggle that the short range radio could detect at , say 10m

supposing if the engine radio lost contact with the toggle

suppose that killed the engine

suppose the toggles cost £10 so all passengers could have one.

suppose this could be bypassed for 30 mnutes by flicking a switch on the engine

suppose the whole lot cost £30

why would this be bad?

Its bad enough sometimes getting a bluetooth connection between my tablet PC and phone, certainly would not want to rely on it to ensure my engine worked.

Steve

for me I wear a kill cord, i also test it, you know what, it works !!

[Starovich]

Originally Posted by Poly

I don't think you read the report. I don't think there was a "change of mind" it was an oversight. Oversights will still happen.

Yep, I did, my point still stands, the more that is done to bring the use of kill-cords to the fore, the less likely oversights will happen.

Most people now feel "naked" driving a car without a seatbelt and put them on through motor memory not though a thought process. Not because it the law but because "its what you do", but the "its what you do" has been brought around because it is the law. Yes we all can genuinely forget, but there are less people who forget to belt up now than before it was the law, even if it always made sense to use the belt.

[chris.moody]

It does need to be second nature to use the kill cord, like a seatbelt, I would feel really odd not wearing one.

However we all forget. I managed to forget to put a killcord on twice last year, luckily both times were personal boating not commercial, and I really beat myself up about it afterwards (especially as on one occasion it was another commercial skipper that pointed out politely that I had forgotten to attach it while using his boat :face palm: ). So I really feel for the lady in the Milly incident. She obviously made a point of wearing the killcord usually, but just forgot on that one instance, like all of us on here have done on occasions.

Chris

[AMac]

If people can't use simple kill cords that we have now what chance have you got of them using hi tech ones?
I still see people not wearing seat belts in cars and it's been law for donkey's years now?
It's the same with mobile phones you see people using them while driving all the time
Why do people not believe that these laws were brought in after a lot of investigations proving that they do make things safer
Kill cords work well to help lessen the chances of injury so just use them!!!

Enough ranting from me I'm away to watch France beet Englandshire😃

[Bigtalljv]

Originally Posted by AMac

If people can't use simple kill cords that we have now what chance have you got of them using hi tech ones?

A day of tubing is my best example. I'm never behind the wheel for more than a few minutes at a time. Back and forth around the boat is the worst thing for kill cord use. I'm as good as I can be about it, more so after this milly accident, bit it's still a PITA. And electronic system would be better for that.

The electronic system is just one less excuse not to use it and would enable a freedom of movement around the boat.

Jason

[Crusher]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

And how would that have prevented the "Milly" incident????

I never said it would,
But who is to say that "it's law" rather than "it's good practice" might, just might have made a difference in behaviour...and might just might, make others behave slightly differently, especially if there is a possibility of a fine for not doing it.

[9D280]

Originally Posted by teamplonker

IDEA!
Inexpensive, unintrusive, non eletronic, no possible human error factor.
What about a spring loaded throttle, I'm sure I have read about them somewhere on here.

For a while my throttle friction screw was a little on the slack side - it would creep back slowly over 5 mins or so. Ended up with a dead arm between Largs & Tignabruach as a result....



The other problem with a new fangled "no brainer" system is people will get out the habit of putting the chord on. Then someone will jump into a museum such as mine, and.....


E.G. - Automotive example - I learned to drive on an Austin A40. I could half the braking distance by nimbly crashing down the gears & using the engine braking. laughably it was almost impossiobnle to lock the wheels - No vac Assist or anything. then spent time with 3 cars with decent npon ABS brakes.

These days everyone is taught to E-brake by planting right foot on middle pedal & left foot on clutch & let the electronics get on with it.... I've now been driving with ABS for 15 years or so now (previous cars ABS was an optional Extra)

If I jumped into a "90s classic" car now - could I cadence brake like I used to?

Doubt it.

[Presuming Ed]

I wonder how much of it is the fiddly little metal clip. Would something quicker and easier to use - a webbing leg strap with fastex type buckle - be an improvement?

[Presuming Ed]

Originally Posted by Bigtalljv

A day of tubing is my best example. I'm never behind the wheel for more than a few minutes at a time. Back and forth around the boat is the worst thing for kill cord use. I'm as good as I can be about it, more so after this milly accident, bit it's still a PITA. And electronic system would be better for that.

Looks like the perfect time to wear the cord full time, and unplug from the boat when you want to move around, rather than take off the cord?

[indaba1991]

Originally Posted by Presuming Ed

Looks like the perfect time to wear the cord full time, and unplug from the boat when you want to move around, rather than take off the cord?

This is not so easy on some bigger boats - if I am alone and trying to anchor near a beach in wind / waves I have to move through a hatch to the bow to deploy. Shutting down the engines poses a risk in that sort of circumstances. A kill cord has its limitation in some instances but I still believe its the best option generally.

See pic

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by Bigtalljv

A day of tubing is my best example. I'm never behind the wheel for more than a few minutes at a time. Back and forth around the boat is the worst thing for kill cord use. I'm as good as I can be about it, more so after this milly accident, bit it's still a PITA. And electronic system would be better for that.

Jason

the kill cord system is ideal when you are swapping helms all the time. Everyone has a KC round their leg and when swapping one person unplugs (which tests the system), turns off the ignition, the next plugs in and turns the key to restart. It ensures that the engine is off during a high risk time, people moving around the boat where someone could trip and fall onto the throttle. It only takes around 2 seconds to plug in a KC and restart an engine so I can't see an argument for leaving it running while swapping over.

Chris

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Presuming Ed

I wonder how much of it is the fiddly little metal clip. Would something quicker and easier to use - a webbing leg strap with fastex type buckle - be an improvement?

Some people use something like a dog collar. Jetski versions are available with velcro straps. But if you adopt the keep it attached to your approach the "fiddly" clip is not an issue - have a kill cord for each helmsman.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by indaba1991

This is not so easy on some bigger boats - if I am alone and trying to anchor near a beach in wind / waves I have to move through a hatch to the bow to deploy. Shutting down the engines poses a risk in that sort of circumstances. A kill cord has its limitation in some instances but I still believe its the best option generally.

See pic

I understand exactly what you are saying, and I'm not saying I would necessarily do something different from you, but if you look at the risk you've just described it is not insignificant. On your own. At the bow and working with an anchor. Wind & waves. Near a beach (possibly people around). If that was something that regularly caused me to leave the helm with the engine running I'd be looking at how you might deploy the anchor remotely?

[indaba1991]

Originally Posted by Poly

I understand exactly what you are saying, and I'm not saying I would necessarily do something different from you, but if you look at the risk you've just described it is not insignificant. On your own. At the bow and working with an anchor. Wind & waves. Near a beach (possibly people around). If that was something that regularly caused me to leave the helm with the engine running I'd be looking at how you might deploy the anchor remotely?

Well interestingly we have been working on this. Three of us who have Protectors have built this contraption for the bow (see pic). I can set it up before coming in to anchor. Its not perfected yet but I can now run the anchor warp back through the cabin to the helm station. I can then flick the rope and with the weight of the chain the anchor will usually drop. Still needs some development work.

[Lee argyle]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

the kill cord system is ideal when you are swapping helms all the time. Everyone has a KC round their leg and when swapping one person unplugs (which tests the system), turns off the ignition, the next plugs in and turns the key to restart. It ensures that the engine is off during a high risk time, people moving around the boat where someone could trip and fall onto the throttle. It only takes around 2 seconds to plug in a KC and restart an engine so I can't see an argument for leaving it running while swapping over.

Chris

Unless your in heavy seas and the helm will swap from one crew member to another whilst under power, I wouldn't be turning engines off. Once the new helm has taken over control of the boat the old helm the un-clips the KC and immediately re-clips it onto the new helm

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by Lee argyle

Unless your in heavy seas and the helm will swap from one crew member to another whilst under power, I wouldn't be turning engines off. Once the new helm has taken over control of the boat the old helm the un-clips the KC and immediately re-clips it onto the new helm

In heavy seas I like your solution, it ensures the kc is attached throughout the swapping over bit which in my opinion is the most dangerous part.

Chris

[tonto]

From Mistress Rib - is it not possible for the designers of Rib ignitions to re-gig the starter key with a method that the key will not turn to start the engine unless the kill cord is in place and electronically Engadged - plus be Engadged clipped into a device that is attached to a person.......... How difficult could it be.........? Sounds maybe over kill but it could be done.....?
Of course there will always be those who would adjust or manipulate such a system. Yet for the majority it would be safety first.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by tonto

From Mistress Rib - is it not possible for the designers of Rib ignitions to re-gig the starter key with a method that the key will not turn to start the engine unless the kill cord is in place and electronically Engadged - plus be Engadged clipped into a device that is attached to a person.......... How difficult could it be.........? Sounds maybe over kill but it could be done.....?
Of course there will always be those who would adjust or manipulate such a system. Yet for the majority it would be safety first.

Have a look back over this thread and the others - most things have been rejected already ............ How difficult? Impossible for the £0 budget!