High tech kill cords - the next generation?

[Simon B]

This could usher in a more robust safety system from manufacturers like an inhibitting RFID chip or something in the loop that should be around your leg, but it could easily be cut off (the chip not the leg)

[Rokraider]

Originally Posted by m chappelow

Always remember an old guy from our boat club who had an old seagull engine as an aux on his sailing boat
When he was alone in the boat he would tie a piece of line to the spark plug cap with the view if he fell over the line would pull off the plug cap stopping the motor .

It would be funny if it was wet, the spark would certainly wake him up!

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Rokraider

It would be funny if it was wet, the spark would certainly wake him up!

Give him a length of electric fence cord. That would keep his ticker lively.

[ShinyShoe]

Is there a hint of what happened in the sentence:

"Stop the engine before transferring the kill cord to another driver."


The suggestions of an RFID device don't work. Its OK if you have it in your pocket, but would you cary a spare so you can retrieve the person? The spare will still be in the boat so the RFID wont know its missing. People will leave the RFID aboard for next time then forget to put it in their pocket etc.

Low tech works. Yes the cord needs a decent breaking strain. Cord length is probably rarely considered.

The only way I can see a reminder working would be if the switch maybe needed to be tripped before restarting the engine. So you stop at a jetty for lunch. When you restart the engine either it wont restart till you remove and reinsert the kill cord which should remind you to attach the cord, OR it produces some form of warning (light, alarm, speed limitter) if you haven't....

[gotchiguy]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

The only way I can see a reminder working would be if the switch maybe needed to be tripped before restarting the engine. So you stop at a jetty for lunch. When you restart the engine either it wont restart till you remove and reinsert the kill cord which should remind you to attach the cord, OR it produces some form of warning (light, alarm, speed limitter) if you haven't....

That is an absolutely excellent idea. It makes you have to positively think about it.. Would stop twits with Mercurys who leave the switch permanently on with no cord, and all other make of kill cord too. Only the real idiots could "forget" to clip it on to themselves if they had to clip & unclip each time. Would stop those with cable ties around the kill switch, etc etc. Having to actually touch it in order to un clip and reclip is the best reminder of all.

Only issue is that it would undoubtedly require a move to an "electronic" style switch as opposed to the currect "discrete electronic" system, if you get what I mean. But it would still be low tech enough to be reliable

[NSS]

I've been giving this some thought and I'd like to float (pardon the pun) an idea for comments/opinions.

My first thought was for something along the lines of a 'dead man's brake' and so I got to thinking about those sort of applications. The train analogy, where the driver has to maintain pressure on the throttle (as I understand it) is not an option, as discussed earlier with the idea of a sprung loaded throttle. But a far more common arrangement may be viable.

If you have an electric lawnmower then I suspect you'll already be familiar with it.

In the case of my Bosch, before the motor will start (on a push button), you have to pull back the bar that runs parallel to the handle. As soon as you let go of that pull bar the motor stops.

My idea would be to have a secondary 'ring' behind the steering wheel that has to be pulled back against the wheel before the engine will start. As soon as that ring is released, the engine would stop. And to stop anyone from simply tie-wrapping the ring to the wheel, the 'trip' action of the ring being drawn back would have to take place within a defined time (say 3 seconds) before the starter circuit is activated.

I don't know about anyone else, but I can't see why the helm would need to let go of the wheel (and hence the ring) under any normal conditions.

If this is a crap idea then I'm happy to be shot down. If not, then how do I patent it?

[mister p]

You can't patent it as you've just made it public. :-)

[NSS]

Originally Posted by mister p

You can't patent it as you've just made it public. :-)

I know, but would it work? If so, consider it my gift to the boating world

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Originally Posted by NSS

I've been giving this some thought and I'd like to float (pardon the pun) an idea for comments/opinions.

My first thought was for something along the lines of a 'dead man's brake' and so I got to thinking about those sort of applications. The train analogy, where the driver has to maintain pressure on the throttle (as I understand it) is not an option, as discussed earlier with the idea of a sprung loaded throttle. But a far more common arrangement may be viable.

If you have an electric lawnmower then I suspect you'll already be familiar with it.

In the case of my Bosch, before the motor will start (on a push button), you have to pull back the bar that runs parallel to the handle. As soon as you let go of that pull bar the motor stops.

My idea would be to have a secondary 'ring' behind the steering wheel that has to be pulled back against the wheel before the engine will start. As soon as that ring is released, the engine would stop. And to stop anyone from simply tie-wrapping the ring to the wheel, the 'trip' action of the ring being drawn back would have to take place within a defined time (say 3 seconds) before the starter circuit is activated.

I don't know about anyone else, but I can't see why the helm would need to let go of the wheel (and hence the ring) under any normal conditions.

If this is a crap idea then I'm happy to be shot down. If not, then how do I patent it?

Disagree entirely. I often potter along at idle in flat calm sea looking at the scenery or animals/birds. I often take both hands off the wheel as I eat a butty or something. Turn 180 to talk to someone for a second.

Same applies for spring loaded throttle, not fit for all purposes. Trolling whilst fishing for example.

I maintain. EDUCATION EDUCATION and give people common sense.

[Nos4r2]

Nice idea but it'd become tiring on the hands after a while and you'd have to keep a grip round all parts of the wheel. You'd also be relying on a rotating contact round the wheel continuing to work.

I have a far simpler idea.

Run a version of an 'alternator field disconnect' on the ignition swich, so you can ONLY stop the motor (ie, stop the alternator putting out power) by pulling off the kill cord.
Turning the ignition switch to 'off' won't stop the motor so the kill cord has to be removed and refitted to restart the motor. Once the motor has stopped, the ignition key will work as normal.


Simple and easy to fit and to retrofit (would simply mean a replacement ignition switch).


It's very hard to leave a killcord dangling if you have to remove it to stop the motor.

[NSS]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Nice idea but it'd become tiring on the hands after a while and you'd have to keep a grip round all parts of the wheel. You'd also be relying on a rotating contact round the wheel continuing to work.

I have a far simpler idea.

Run a version of an 'alternator field disconnect' on the ignition swich, so you can ONLY stop the motor (ie, stop the alternator putting out power) by pulling off the kill cord.
Turning the ignition switch to 'off' won't stop the motor so the kill cord has to be removed and refitted to restart the motor. Once the motor has stopped, the ignition key will work as normal.


Simple and easy to fit and to retrofit (would simply mean a replacement ignition switch).


It's very hard to leave a killcord dangling if you have to remove it to stop the motor.

Doesn't have to be a rotating contact as the ring would be attached to the wheel (and rotate with it), and I don't see how it would be tiring as the pressure to pull back the ring doesn't need to be particularly heavy.

As for taking both hands off the wheel for a few moments, the trip switch could have a delayed activation of say 5 to 10 seconds.

[Nos4r2]

It'd need to be a rotating contact from the wheel to the console, unless you want a piece of wire that twists 4 times every time you go lock to lock.

Ref the 'tiring', try holding a motorbike throttle for a long period at the same opening. Even with a minimal return spring you get white knuckles.

[NSS]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

It'd need to be a rotating contact from the wheel to the console, unless you want a piece of wire that twists 4 times every time you go lock to lock.

Ref the 'tiring', try holding a motorbike throttle for a long period at the same opening. Even with a minimal return spring you get white knuckles.

Not if it was a battery powered remote switch.

And you can at least change hands on the steering wheel, which is not something you can do with a bike throttle.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by NSS

Not if it was a battery powered remote switch.

And you can at least change hands on the steering wheel, which is not something you can do with a bike throttle.

How are you going to connect it to the engine loom?

It's getting more and more complex, with more potential fail points.

[ShinyShoe]

10 seconds at 20kts = 100m.
If the boat goes straight thats a big swim.
If the boat goes circular based on the pictures on the Kill Cord thread that boat was circling in a radius < 2 boat lengths. Call a boat 8m, circumfrance = 2 x Pi r. 8 x 2 x 2 x 3.14 = 100m. Ouch.

Too many situations where you may want 1 hand spare so if 1 has to be on the wheel you have to let go the throttle...

Turning the ignition switch to 'off' won't stop the motor so the kill cord has to be removed and refitted to restart the motor. Once the motor has stopped, the ignition key will work as normal.

I suspect you actually need to be able to start the engine and use it but in some restricted fashion. If you stall in a bad palce you want to trun the key and go no faffing taking the kill on and off. You wont care in that case if its flashing/buzzing at you. Perhaps you can live with only minimal revs.
My Car bleeps if I drive above 15mph without my seat belt on.

However, none of this would help the situation described where people may be changing helm without changing kill cord wearer...

[Andy B]

Originally Posted by NSS

My idea would be to have a secondary 'ring' behind the steering wheel that has to be pulled back against the wheel before the engine will start. As soon as that ring is released, the engine would stop. And to stop anyone from simply tie-wrapping the ring to the wheel, the 'trip' action of the ring being drawn back would have to take place within a defined time (say 3 seconds) before the starter circuit is activated.

Any safety device is open to abuse, in this case the ring will be taped to the wheel once the engine is started!
As stated the only way is education. there's already a simple working device in place. it just needs using.

[NSS]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

How are you going to connect it to the engine loom?

It's getting more and more complex, with more potential fail points.

No idea (yet), but it can't be that difficult. I lock/unlock my car with a remote key. I change channel/volume/etc on my TV with a remote. They're pretty reliable. I'm not saying it's a simple solution, but we all seem to agree that education/legislation will not stop these kind of accidents from happening. Surely white knuckles are better than lost limbs or worse.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

I suspect you actually need to be able to start the engine and use it but in some restricted fashion. If you stall in a bad palce you want to trun the key and go no faffing taking the kill on and off.

No reason you can't do that-all it means is you can't STOP the motor on the ignition KEY-ie, only the killcord can stop the motor. For all intents and purposes,the ignition works as normal apart from that.

The 'Alternator field disconnect' idea is just to stop someone rope starting the motor and doing a runner with your boat and to stop anyone leaving the engine running with the key in the off position, cauing alternator damage. Otherwise , you could simply remove the 'stop' wire from the back of the ignition switch.

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

You wont care in that case if its flashing/buzzing at you. Perhaps you can live with only minimal revs.
My Car bleeps if I drive above 15mph without my seat belt on.

However, none of this would help the situation described where people may be changing helm without changing kill cord wearer...

No, agreed.There's not really anything that'll do that apart from a wireless killcord with all the complications that gives.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by NSS

No idea (yet), but it can't be that difficult. I lock/unlock my car with a remote key. I change channel/volume/etc on my TV with a remote. They're pretty reliable. I'm not saying it's a simple solution, but we all seem to agree that education/legislation will not stop these kind of accidents from happening. Surely white knuckles are better than lost limbs or worse.

Agreed, but you don't operate all of those while being subjected to a salt shower and if the batteries fail you don't have to change them while being thrown around.

[NSS]

Originally Posted by Andy B

Any safety device is open to abuse, in this case the ring will be taped to the wheel once the engine is started!
As stated the only way is education. there's already a simple working device in place. it just needs using.

Also easily overcome. Simply have a 10 minute timer with an audible/visual warning that requires the ring to be periodically released momentarily before being re-engaged. If you don't do so then the trip switch kills the engine. You'd soon get fed up with releasing the tape/string/clip every 10 minutes.

The 'simple' device is too simply ignored/abused.