High tech kill cords - the next generation?

[NSS]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

You could ask JK. Personally I can't really see any benefit from it. Almost everything discussed outside the commercial section is relevant to leisure users.

Maybe so, but I'm not convinced that everyone else is interested in what leisure ribbers may wish to discuss (bimini tops, cup holders, sun decks, go faster stripes, etc)

[Nos4r2]

Don't read them then

[JABS]

Not wishing to hijack the existing thread, I have a few ideas on how the existing kill cord system could be improved.

The existing system is very simple, clunky and relies on the driver clipping on.

The clipping on is probably the weakest link in the chain. There are other potential failure modes such as the kill cord breaking before it trips!

So, what are the other options? Engine technology is certainly very advanced but we still have what is basically a microswitch opening a circuit to kill the engine.

One option would be to sense that the driver is in his seat. You may have this in your front passenger seat in your car. It can be done several ways, such as weight sensing or ultrasonic sensing and it deactivates the airbag is there is no on in the seat. I am sure the car companies pay peanuts for the sensors.

Or how about a system that detects an engine on full lock for a period of time?

Or to detect if the hand is off the throttle for more than a short period. That would also make you keep your hand on the throttle!

Our cars are full of sensors, why not take some technology to make sure you CAN'T be run over?

Or will it take legislation to make manufacturers take note?

Any more ideas?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by JABS

Not wishing to hijack[i]read] the existing thread, I have a few ideas on how the existing kill cord system could be improved which have probably already been suggested but I will ignore them anyway.

The existing system is very simple, clunky and relies on the driver clipping on.

The clipping on is probably the weakest link in the chain. There are other potential failure modes such as the kill cord breaking before it trips!

That's right but bear in mind that any "passive" system YOU don't need to activate instils confidence that may be misplaced if it doesn't work or is ineffective.

So, what are the other options? Engine technology is certainly very advanced but we still have what is basically a microswitch opening a circuit to kill the engine.

actually they normally close the switch to kill the engine.

One option would be to sense that the driver is in his seat. You may have this in your front passenger seat in your car. It can be done several ways, such as weight sensing or ultrasonic sensing and it deactivates the airbag is there is no on in the seat. I am sure the car companies pay peanuts for the sensors.

been discussed

Or how about a system that detects an engine on full lock for a period of time?

so it only works if the engine is full lock. Meanwhile people get run over or boats 'run away' through a group of swimmers!

Or to detect if the hand is off the throttle for more than a short period. That would also make you keep your hand on the throttle!

oh oh oh can we push a button every minute to confirm we are still alive too?

Our cars are full of sensors, why not take some technology to make sure you CAN'T be run over?

car sensors aren't very long lives even without adding salt water and neglect.

Any more ideas?

there's pages of them...

[clloyd]

I use the autothether system on a willard 7m disel rib. I really think it is a good system. I go out alone in the winter in Or and falling overboard would definetly be deadly, especially if the boat did not stop.

Most doesels have no overboard kill system at all. You can however rig one up to your fuel solenoid. The way my autotether is setup, it mecahnically flips a cole hersee overboard switch. This switch can also be used with a normal lanyard, so you have both options and would never be without, say if the autotether needed new batteries or something.

A lot of people on this thread poo pooing wireless overboard devices as possibly unreliable however, i think they are a lot safer than the mechanical ones. At least you can keep them active when walking around the boat. The lanyards are off and on a lot and then people get sick of clipping them and leave them off.

Heres a thread on hoe tomrig it for a cummins 6bt diesel.

http://boatdiesel.com/Forums/index.c...=0&Forum_ID=37

[mister p]

Willk....you mentioned keeping "numpties" away from boats and indeed keeping them on the beach.

One question,

How do you identify the "numpties"? (testing and licensing to prove their numptiness I guess)

Or a card that non-numpties carry around to keep them off the beach and in boats?

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by clloyd

A lot of people on this thread poo pooing wireless overboard devices as possibly unreliable however, i think they are a lot safer than the mechanical ones. At least you can keep them active when walking around the boat. The lanyards are off and on a lot and then people get sick of clipping them and leave them off.

It's fair to say I've been "poo pooing" wireless overboard devices in the context of a leisure market primary safety system in a marine environment. I still believe there to be too many drawbacks in the stability, reliability and durability of wireless systems for that type of application. Your point of single handed operation in a larger open boat is well made: however, I would need significant convincing that a relatively complex wireless electronic device is safer - in the broadest sense of the word - than a piece of string with a clip at each end.

I notice you mention your wireless system also has a backup of a piece of string with a clip at each end. I wonder why? ;-)

[Chris Caton]

Originally Posted by mister p

Willk....you mentioned keeping "numpties" away from boats and indeed keeping them on the beach.

One question,

How do you identify the "numpties"? (testing and licensing to prove their numptiness I guess)

Or a card that non-numpties carry around to keep them off the beach and in boats?

that's easy, a numpty always knows the best way of doing whatever it is you are doing, but has never actually done it

[clloyd]

@leapy if you use that piece of string religiously and never unclip it or move about the boat when its in gear then i agree the piece of string is safer.

In a small boat where there is nowhere to go, yeah the string makes sense. In a larger open boat, could be trolling and need to adjust something at the back of the boat. Larger boats might even be on autopilot etc. the wireless systems have their place. The design of the autotether is good. If the connection is lost betwen the fob and base, the system triggers. If the battery gets below a certain level there is an alarm and eventually it triggers. You could even use both it and a string when you are at the helm. You can use multiple fobs for helm and crew and decide whether you want the crew fob to sound overboard alarm instead of stopping the engine.

Lets face it the weakest link in any of these systems is human.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by clloyd

Lets face it the weakest link in any of these systems is human.

Ain't that the truth

[mister p]

Originally Posted by Chris Caton

that's easy, a numpty always knows the best way of doing whatever it is you are doing, but has never actually done it

Cool

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by clloyd

Most doesels have no overboard kill system at all.

All modern diesels that have electronic systems support kill cord technology - the Yanmars in our boat have kill cords on the ignition panel - it's only older mechanical injection engines that need the system you're talking about.

[wavelength]

The design of the autotether is good

can you just put it in your pocket? and then get a bit warm and take that garment off and hang it on the helm seat? whilst you fall outa the back of the boat? I'm on a 16m cat at the moment, twin jets nice and quick, my jacket is hung on the helm seat. Not that there is any form of kill cord on here anyway!
There is however a nice autopilot. Nowt to stop me bobbin off on a bit of a sleep at full chat when thats doing the driving! Seen that happen!
Similarly nowt to stop m'car if I go to sleep on cruise control with 2 tonnes of vehicle doing 70mph -though its likely to be a very short sleep and a very rude awakening!

[m chappelow]

Originally Posted by wavelength

can you just put it in your pocket? and then get a bit warm and take that garment off and hang it on the helm seat? whilst you fall outa the back of the boat? --!

That's a good point and one of the reasons why foul weather jackets should have the little toggle hoops removed the ones so so a lifejacket can be toggled onto the garment ,
Take your jacket off or leave it in the wheel house & your lifejackets left with it fastened on .

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally Posted by willk

Point taken, in future I'll spell it out for you

[clloyd]

Originally Posted by Cookee

All modern diesels that have electronic systems support kill cord technology - the Yanmars in our boat have kill cords on the ignition panel - it's only older mechanical injection engines that need the system you're talking about.

For sure, i wonder, do most diesel rib manufacturers fit kill cords now? Ive never seen them and i know that they are not standard with a lot of engine packages (cummins?). Regardless, autotether would work great for any kill cord system fitted.

Also the mechanical diesels are mostly energize to run solenoids, so they can also be fitted fairly easily, but most are not fitted that way.

I setup mine as energize to stop because my engine was setup to not need electricity to run at all and i wanted to retain that capability.

Originally Posted by wavelength

can you just put it in your pocket? and then get a bit warm and take that garment off and hang it on the helm seat? !

Well, normally it lives with my lifevest when im out solo but this summer i think id put it in the pocket of my swim trunks. If i took those off then id be driving naked. If you drive naked, all bets are off.

[wavelength]

Well, normally it lives with my lifevest when im out solo but this summer i think id put it in the pocket of my swim trunks. If i took those off then id be driving naked. If you drive naked, all bets are off

bigger chance of human error creeping in than remembering to clip a kill cord on. If you actually wonder if you've put the killcord on, then you look and see.
If you wonder which pocket you put the electronic thing in, one just assumes you put it in the right pocket. Don't like electronic ones-and yes I have used them at a boatshow were they were touted as the best thing since sliced bread. By the time everyone had had a fiddle with it we found we could walk away with it and the motor was still running happily. Maybe that was operator error and we were all muppets who cocked the thing up. But the point is it didnt stop the engine no matter who was at fault.
Probably not the system that you use and are obviously happy with, but that was enough for us-refused to wear them and had a bit of string instead.

[wavelength]

Take your jacket off or leave it in the wheel house & your lifejackets left with it fastened on

naw doesnt work for me- want my lifejacket at various time during a long day with varying levels of clothing required from T-shirt to big jacket.

then id be driving naked

not got to that stage yet, well not that I'm admitting to, might need a Prince Albert then

[Boats&Outboards]

Interesting watch regarding kill cords from the powerboat & yachting magazine, found link via our facebook page. Neat little bit of kit they display as a secondary fail safe to the kill cord. Its called CoastKey. Link here

http://www.coastkey.com/en/product/

Main video

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CzK0jnD...%3DCzK0jnDvhso

Without pointing fingers, had to chuckle at the YouTube comments, suggesting no life jacket on the presenter during his short trip over the river

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ www.BoatsandOutboards4Sale.co.uk ~ 07930 421007

[ashbypower]

A back up system for the kill cord !!! Guess cars will be having back up systems for brakes next..... perhaps a parachute to throw out to help slow us down, !!!