How could this be avoided ?

[Pablo]

Hi,
i've just viewed a clip where a rib gets turned over by a face on wave.
Here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsY87...eature=related

It looks terrible. But my question is, could they have avoided flipping over? If the boat was more nose heavy, or less tail heavy, or if they took the wave differently could it have been a different story?

I assure you, I hope never to be out in the same conditions.

[Nasher]

Pablo

If the RNLI can get it wrong with all their training, what chance do us leisure boaters stand.

I've done exactly that in a 4m RIB in smaller seas, and I can assure you it happened so quickly I don't think I could have done anything about it. I was however out in a steep sea where the conditions were probably too much for the boat and my abilities.

I've also very nearly done it in my 6.5M with several Ribnet people on board, that again was very steep seas in very shallow water and I should have avoided heading directly into it.

Nasher

[jyasaki]

On one of my less than intelligent jaunts, a few friends and I headed out of a little river harbor to go abalone diving. Conditions were horrible, but we knew a spot where a large rock should have offered protection from the swell, so we navigated the river channel (3 boats, 7 divers) and headed out into the cove. Wave faces were 10, maybe 12 feet, shotgunning into the cove. The result was that the nearshore stuff was huge, and steep, and the outer part of the cove was just scary. At one point, I looked back to see if the last boat had made it out, and all I saw was the entire hull of the boat, bow to outboard, hanging vertically above the water. It came back down tailfirst, and flopped back down and contiinued. I found out later that the second diver on the boat had been up front to get some weight there, and during the hang had fallen loose, to end up sitting on the bench seat next to the pilot.

Needless to say, I abandoned any idea of doing the 2 mile run to our ab spot; it was bad enough just trying to get back into the river.

Not really something I'd like to repeat, though I never felt that my boat was misbehaving. It was, however, an awful lot of work trying to keep things under control.


jky

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Pablo

Hi,
i've just viewed a clip where a rib gets turned over by a face on wave.
Here :

It looks terrible. But my question is, could they have avoided flipping over? If the boat was more nose heavy, or less tail heavy, or if they took the wave differently could it have been a different story?

I assure you, I hope never to be out in the same conditions.

In my opinion the most important decision one ever makes is wether to go out or not!

If that boat was going out in an emergency situation, or training for extreme conditions, then fair enough, but if a leisure boater were to go out in those conditions without good reason I would say they were asking to end up upside down!

A small RIB with twin outboards is always going to be a bit tail heavy, although two smaller outboards aren't necessarily heavier than a single it is a fairly light boat, and even with a crew member hanging on the front those waves were always going to be a challenge!

By the way that video has been discussed at some length on here before I think!

[Chris]

How should one approach a strong head sea (not necessarily as bad as that!)? should you take the waves at more of an angle or is it more to do with wind direction that dictates what angle of approach one should take?

Chris

[v666]

I have never tried it but I would guess at about 20 - 25 degrees

I would also like to hear from those that do play in the big stuff as to how to approach them and also, as you need a fair bit of speed on, what happens ( or what do you do) when you have reached the top?

Tim

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Chris

How should one approach a strong head sea (not necessarily as bad as that!)? should you take the waves at more of an angle or is it more to do with wind direction that dictates what angle of approach one should take?

Chris

Good question - I must say first that I look at things from a racing (both sprint and endurance style) point of view.

With a RIB there is the added disadvantage of lift from the tubes when the wind is coming from the side, but in my experience when faced with steep large waves taking the waves at an angle can mean the difference between having to reduce speed so much that you have to come off the plane and just dropping over the waves, or maintaining planing speed at an angle to the waves and keeping up a higher average speed as a result. Of course everything is a compromise and it is the skippers choice to compromise speed, angle of attack and above all safety of the crew - the best decision may be to turn back and go downwind which is a whole other issue!

We encountered really steep waves in the Red Sea last year trying to get to the start of the second leg after repairing the saddle from damage suffered on leg one (overnight by Kitten and James on a beach shin deep in water!). I desperately wanted to start the race, but even using this technique it was too dangerous, so we turned back to where we repaired the boat, refueled there and joined in with the others after getting the OK from the safety crew. It was so bad that we couldn't keep on the plane with 150 litres of ballast in the nose, and there was a real possibility of being blown over backwards or sideways - we found out later gusts of 52 knots had been measured - we didn't feel so bad at turning round then!

[Chris]

I think the worst waves I have encountered were coming out of Cowes I headed out of mouth of the Medina towards the Gurnard North Cardinal and with wind over tide it made for some pretty heavy stuff. I was with a freind and his dad both of whom are sailors. Basically my freind was helming his dad on the jockey behind and me standing behind that Jockey. His dad started telling him what to do and he was halfway up a wave and cut the throttle to turn around and tell his dad to shut up Danny Boy slid back down the wave into the trough arse first and took on a load of water.

At this point I took over and turned us back to run with the waves. we soon got rid of the water.

However through all of this I never once felt insecure in the boat.

My concern I guess is that I know these boats can handle rough seas and I really like going out when its more of a challenge, however I also want to know the limits and what to look out for.

I was thinking of doing an Advanced course this winter up in the Menai Straits as I feel this would benefit me.

Chris

[Northern Tim]

Chris,
I did my PB2 at Plas Menai with F8 and wind over tide - there can be plenty of challenging conditions up there, so a good location to do advanced imho.

Tim

[Pablo]

I'm sorry, I didn't know that this video has already been discussed here. I would like to find the thread. I'd be grateful if I could have some clues for the search.

For people wanting to go out in rough conditions I would think the Race off Portland would be a good place provided theres a bloody big safty boat close by capable of getting you out of trouble.

That rib does look very tail heavy though, it just drops down vertically. Even with the self righting bag on the A-frame, the crew are in big trouble. I'm not sure I want to know the outcome.

[chris123]

I believe the crew all made it back to shore with no serious injuries.

I'm not sure when it was added but the 'newer' RNLI Atlantics (75s and 85s for sure) have a water ballasting system controlled by the helmsman to help keep the bow down in conditions like those in the video.

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by chris123

the 'newer' RNLI Atlantics (75s and 85s for sure) have a water ballasting system controlled by the helmsman to help keep the bow down in conditions like those in the video.

Is that an RNLI thing, or is it commercially available ?

[chris123]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Is that an RNLI thing, or is it commercially available ?

I'm not sure - I've only ever seen it on the RNLI Atlantic RIBs, but it may be available commercially. Basically there is a lever by the helm's seat, similar to a throttle lever with three positions: pickup, hold, and empty (IIRC). The lever has a cable connection to the pickup point on the transom

[Nasher]

I believe the system is very common on all sorts of race boats.

Nasher.

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by Northern Tim

Chris,
I did my PB2 at Plas Menai with F8 and wind over tide - there can be plenty of challenging conditions up there, so a good location to do advanced imho.

Tim

I don't think they should have gone out in that

[JIY]

I got caught out in very rough conditions earlier this year. I lost an engine, due to an air-lock because of the significant pitching of the RIB. Luckily the other engine kept running, but it was very difficult to get the boat back alongside, even with a 200hp ETEC! There was no way I could pump the fuel bulb of the failed engine (I was single crew) and helm the boat through some big breaking waves.

Perhaps I would have been better laying off an angle to the waves, but with the rough conditions keeping her head-to-sea seemed like the safest option, until I could find an opportunity to turn down-sea.

Reviewing my actions that day, I reckon my only real error was going out in the first place. In spite of being on an excellent, fully serviceable RIB and being "blessed" with lots of rough water handling experience, things still went wrong.

[Matt]

To answer the original question, don't go out in conditions exceeding either your ability or the limits of your equipment. And don't use an excess of one to cover up a shortfall in the other.

[Biggles]

And from my own experience always assume that it is twice as bad at sea as you think it is on land.
Funny how the waves always seem a lot bigger once you leave the harbour than when your in the marina stood next to the boat.

[jwalker]

In the video, the boat is almost vertical in a trough and it is out of site for a moment so that wave must be at least 20ft from trough to crest. Sitting in your seat, look at the ceiling, double the height and add a few more feet.
Feck, that's big steep wave.

[Northern Tim]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I don't think they should have gone out in that

Well, maybe you're right on that but it did give me some good experience in rough water whilst under the supervision of someone who knew what they were doing.

When I bought my first boat, being inexperienced, I took a friend with me on my first time out who also had PB2. Unfortunately, as we got out of the bay he started to panic a bit - "aaargh", "what's up Matt? They're called waves!" - he'd only ever driven on rivers and lakes but I wasn't bothered by it. As has been said by many others, we just have to know the limitations of ourselves, our boats and their maintenance.