How to stop this happening?

[brucehawsker]

Thanks Louise. This helps

I attach the diagram.

Bow line - warp - is the Rib's painter

Stern line - warp - is the line attached from the cleat on the A frame to the cleat on the pontoon.

So far so good.

What is confusing to me are the other two lines. To keep the nose from hitting the pontoon, you clearly need the spring rope (as labelled) from the rear cleat on the pontoon to attach to the centre of the rib - we tend to use the seat back on the front pod.

OK so far.

But what does the forward spring line do? Is it necessary in practice? Do you tie it to the front seat back also?

We had three on Saturday. Not four. Not that it would have mattered

[Paul Glatzel]

Bruce some observations:

• I would say that the damage caused has nothing to do the correct/incorrect specification by Solent RIBs and is entirely a function of the fact that you appear to have tied your craft to avoid the underside of the bow bumping on the pontoon but someone else has been thoughtless when they re tied lines post moving their craft. Had you specified an extra layer of hypalon in that area then of course the damage would be to that layer rather than the layer that has been damaged – but it would still be damaged & need repair. In the normal course of events I would say that Solent in no way wrong to advise against doing. I have 4 RIBs only one of which has more protection in this area than yours, they have never been damaged in this way because i) I’ve been lucky & people have retied my craft correctly or ii) they have been moored so as to eliminate the possibility .

• Of course you still need to get it fixed (do so now else it will bug you the whole summer!) and I would recommend Scott at Rib Repair in Brockenhurst. He did an outstanding job on damage to one of our Scorpions and it arguably looks better than it did before the damage.

• Re warps & springs: Warps are the name given to the lines you use to moor the craft – irrespective of whether they are springs or breast lines (the ones running at the ‘front’ or ‘back’ of the craft generally perpendicular to the vessel to the shore/pontoon etc)

• Addressing your question re what the springs do:

o Mentally ‘remove’ the fore and aft breast lines. The craft couldn’t move backwards and forwards (as the springs hold it in position) but the front and rear of the craft would continually move towards and away from the pontoon as they are unsecured
o Now mentally remove the springs and leave the breast lines in situ. If the breast lines are tied at roughly right angles from the craft to the pontoon then the craft can move backwards and forwards along the pontoon but the front and rear remain held the same distance off the pontoon.
o Now put them all on and the combination of the four lines holds the craft snugly in position

Overall I’d say if you moor in the area you did at Cowes (or in the adjacent RIB park at the RedJet) then damage is always a high possibility. Its not your fault & will cost you but is an inevitable part of the joys of ownership. Personally I would cease looking for anyone to be culpable, I’m sure the person who left you poorly tied didn’t mean to so get it fixed & then concentrate on the next fun trip!


Paul

PS: We all damage craft, we all learn from it - its part of the learning experience

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

No, you are missing the point JW advised Bruce that he needed more protection in this area and Solent Ribs said he didn’t therefore Solent have some responsibility Des

Sorry, I am not missing the point - I concede that the manufacturer should have done something in this area to minimise the damage cause, BUT, you cannot hold a manufacturer responsible if through lack of experience (whatever) your boat gets damaged.

[brucehawsker]

Thanks Paul. I am not really looking for anyone to be culpable.

In line with a series of posts about 'things which have gone wrong for me', I am just hoping that by airing my misfortunes or cock-ups, and getting good advice about how to manage in the futuure, someone else will avoid grief.

Thanks for the clarity on mooring lines and uses.

Is it the case that if, with a 6.5M rib, the bow and stern lines are at a 45 degree angle in front and behind the rib, in normal situations (minimal wash, shelter) only those two lines are necessary? Or should I always use four?

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by ct01

Sorry, I am not missing the point - I concede that the manufacturer should have done something in this area to minimise the damage cause, BUT, you cannot hold a manufacturer responsible if through lack of experience (whatever) your boat gets damaged.

Yeh but had they listened the damage would have been less regardless of how that damage was caused Des

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

....Is it the case that if, with a 6.5M rib, the bow and stern lines are at a 45 degree angle in front and behind the rib, in normal situations (minimal wash, shelter) only those two lines are necessary? Or should I always use four?

The answer is that it depends if you are at the hard in Newtown you only need a painter but in cowes where the tide and current is a bit more interesting use the lot.
One good test before leaving the boat is to push it hard with your foot and see how it moves. If once you have stop pushing the boat comes back to the desired position all is OK but if it stays where you pushed it adjust your springs. This is difficult to explain well and really it is a matter of experience to know when it is right Des

[Mark Halliday]

Bruce
Just picked up on this thread. Sorry to hear of the latest part of your learning curve.

To answer one of your earlier questions, a "V" shaped bow fender may be a useful purchase. It dangles over the nose and stops the bow hitting the pontoon too hard.

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

Is it the case that if, with a 6.5M rib, the bow and stern lines are at a 45 degree angle in front and behind the rib, in normal situations (minimal wash, shelter) only those two lines are necessary? Or should I always use four?

The mooring cleats on the pontoon/quay will never line up with your boat. One of Sods many laws. If you are leaving the boat unattended, then use springs, always. I take springs as far forward and aft as I can. i.e. from the bow to the pontoon near the stearn and vica versa.

One more point. If you are rafted more than 3 out put additional shore lines from you, over or round the inside boats, to the pontoon. This lets someone on the quay hold your boat securly while those inside slip out. DO NOT rely on anyone re-tying you boat securly. Go and check it regularly. Its a pain but worth doing. Remember how it was done at Yarmouth earlier this year (just before incident 1 & 2).

Old sea dog story. Many years ago I was doing Cowes week in a 32 footer. We were rafted 5 out of 7 on the outside (channel side) of the outer pontoon at West Cowes Marina. At 0730 a Frenchman, 2 out, left. He cast the 5 yachts outside him adrift. You should have seen the panic.

[codprawn]

Wouldn't mooring stern in avoid this problem???

[ADS]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Wouldn't mooring stern in avoid this problem???

Yes and no. You could potentially damage your cones and your engine casing. I think the problem with Cowes is the wash, the use of springs and lots of fenders are the only solution.

Alex

[brucehawsker]

So Cowes is a problem. Anywhere else in the Solent region a particular problem?

[Erin]

Just a bit of further clarification regarding springs and warps.

The extra length of rope inherently used in a spring line allows the boat to move up and down considerably more than a short bow or stern line/warp would. This is crucial if you moor up against a wall with a rising or falling tide. On a pontoon all lines can be kept quite tight, but against a jetty the short warps/breast lines should be slacker than the springs to allow for tide changes.

HTH

keith

[brucehawsker]

Louise / JK

Can we please add this thread {edited} about warps and mooring into the FAQs?

[scm]

Bruce,

So Cowes is a problem

No

Anywhere else in the Solent region a particular problem?

Every single place

Everytime you moor up it will be different, tide, wind, swell, sun in your eyes etc etc etc

It's all down to time on the water and practise.

Oh and of course training
Regards
Stuart

[tim griffin]

Oh my God

For F@: k sake , my boat has the same scuff caused by some twat who does not know how how to tie a boat back up. It's my fault for leaving the boat where it was and expecting some one to tie it back up the same way as they found it . My boat ai'nt gonna sink it ain't gonna peel off the tubes if i stuff it just got to whack a patch on next time she' s ashore 15 mins tops . All of this should be covered on you level 2 course . It is not the fault of Solent ribs its just bad luck . Its like saying i parked my car in Sainsbury's car park someone has hit it and its your fault Mr Manufacturer becuase you did not put a bigger bumper on it. I think half of Rib Net were involved with the build of your boat and with all the changes/add ons every one was losing the will to live .Bruce you seem like a nice decent bloke who enjoy's his rib and is learning heaps by going out with more experienced people than your self ,but get over it sh'@t happens it's just one of those things . I offered you tuition when you first got her , you went else where what can i say .If you still want to take up that offer it's still there no cash no strings i am so pi@@ed off with your bad luck . I made a good deal out of you buying that rib so it's the least i can do.

[benc]

Originally Posted by brucehawsker

So Cowes is a problem. Anywhere else in the Solent region a particular problem?

Cowes is a particularly bad place where I moor right behind the red funnel jet pontoon.. when the boat comes in it causes quite a bit of wash and the boats get thrown about a bit.

Also, it seems to be the place where everybody moors when the pop over, as I do for a quick pint or something to eat. This means your boat would be more likely to be moved... so more opportunity for it to be done wrong.

My bow/stern lines are very long (I know, I should cut them back... and I will, one day.) - but what I do, it.. tie the stern to the cleat, and then take it back and mount it to the frame I have around my console. Then I take the stern line and tie that to a cleat... and take it to the back of one of the seats and tie it there... that stops the boat going backwards and forwards.... and seems to work for me.

A blunder I made was trying to more against the pontoon approaching bow first between other boats just as the redjet came in... this lifted my boat, and pushed me forward onto the pontoon.. and scuffed up my gel coat on the bow Luckily stuart (rogue wave) did I get drop of removing the scuffs and polishing it up all nice again (Thanks stu!)

Anyway, theres my 2 pence worth.

Speak later.

Ben

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

....just got to whack a patch on next time she' s ashore 15 mins tops

Pish... you've obviously never done it...properly.

Originally Posted by tim griffin

...its just bad luck . Its like saying i parked my car in Sainsbury's car park someone has hit it and its your fault Mr Manufacturer becuase you did not put a bigger bumper on it.

No. It's like saying, "You left off the bumpers and you told me it would be ok."

IMHO, again, of course.

[The Jackeens]

Cowes is a great place to visit! On a summer evening it can be easy to find a mooring, go to a favourite waterfront pub and chill out with mates.

But it can be a nightmare at busy times.

I remember looking at the huge gathering of RIBs moored one Cowes week and watching the lovely passengers of an outside RIB cross to the pontoon by merrily jumping on the tubes in high heels .

Another evening we were moored for a quick visit to the Fountain and some local young peeps removed our fire extinguisher just for fun.

Really sorry you had such a bad experience Bruce.

missus

[brucehawsker]

Tim,

Thanks for the most helpful and informative post.

I am pleased to be able to report that Scott Braye of Rib Repair is going to sort it out for me most promptly and efficiently. Please can I recommend him to all as a highly courteous and helpful person who, though he is busy, replies within 48 hours with clarity and politeness.

Bruce

[John Kennett]

Bruce

For what it's worth, in the same situation I would have done exactly the same as you. When you're mooring somewhere as busy as that you have to make the best of whatever's available. As far as I can see, the fault lies sqaurely with the skipper of the other boat who appears to have been too lazy, thoughtless or clueless to tie your boat back up properly.

You could have decided not to leave the boat unattended, or endlessly keep coming back to check it, but you're never going to have a good time if you do that.

You could have put more fenders out, but where do you stop? You can't cater for every eventuality.

The bow area on some designs of RIB is potentially vulnerable to this sort of damage, but I wouldn't expect extra fendering there to be standard. You're not likely to get into this situation very often.

If it happened to me I would be seriously pissed off for a couple of days, get it fixed, then carry on as normal.

John

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

I made a good deal out of you buying that rib

John