How to value a Rib

crusoe · 23 July 2008, 21:05

I'm thinking of selling my Medline11 due to the fact that I only took it out twice last year

This year I haven't even seen it

(presume its still at the boat park)

How do you put or get a value on a Rib thats fair to both the buyer and seller as I really wouldn't want to be haggling etc.

Thanks John.

willk · 23 July 2008, 23:06

I seem to remember someone on here saying deduct the VAT from the new purchase price and deduct 10% per annum thereafter. You might factor in a bit for general economic depression at the moment...
I expect that this equates to a figure that is a bit less than you think it's worth and a bit more than the prospective buyers claim it's worth.

crusoe · 24 July 2008, 09:21

Thanks Willk

I've never really sold anything in my life I seem to be one of lifes horders but it seems pointless hanging on to every thing.

I thought that there might be a guide like they do for cars etc
In the past I've always part exchanged but you've pointed me in the right direction.

Poly · 24 July 2008, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

I seem to remember someone on here saying deduct the VAT from the new purchase price and deduct 10% per annum thereafter. You might factor in a bit for general economic depression at the moment...
I expect that this equates to a figure that is a bit less than you think it's worth and a bit more than the prospective buyers claim it's worth.

Willk - like you I have "regurgitated" that formula in the past and some people were very quick to say it was far too steep. I still think its not a million miles off.

Obviously it depends on condition, a boat which has been hammered commercially will be worth significantly less than one that is still mint. There must also be some effects caused by the "brand". If its a highly respected brand with a long waiting list/production cycle then a 1 year old boat available now will be an attractive proposition (higher value) than waiting till next season for a new boat. On the other hand if its a mass produced boat with numerous dealers then you can probably get a new boat in a couple of months - that will push down the second hand value (If I can get a new boat quickly for not much more, why would I get an old one).

As with everything the sales price is based on what someone is willing to pay. So anything which is wacky/odd/specific to you is likely to reduce resale price (like a lime green car will usually be worth less than a silver or red one).

I think you need to expect to haggle. Unless it is a sellers market (you have something that is highly sought after and in rare supply) then buyers will be expecting to negotiate on the advertised price. If you don't want to get involved in that then a broker can help but will probably want around 8% for the pleasure. A broker would also help put a value on it.

I think the trick is getting your advertised price right. If you put it too high no one will respond, and then you are paying insurance and storage so its costing you money...

Just some thoughts.

crusoe · 24 July 2008, 11:35

[QUOTE=Polwart;257572]

I think the trick is getting your advertised price right. If you put it too high no one will respond, and then you are paying insurance and storage so its costing you money...
Just some thoughts. [/QUOTE

Agree totaly with you that is the secret also I hadn't thought about using a broker

I just don't really think that I'm a sales man and would just prefer to set a fair price and say thats it take it or leave it.
I'd imagine on the smaller items its easy just 1/2 of original price etc

bogib · 28 July 2008, 01:45

We devalue the package by 12% for the 1st year then annualy by 8% and that works well over here.

Bogi

Andy JC · 29 July 2008, 14:50

I guess any formula only works for a limited number of years, otherwise my 18yr old Searider would be worth about -£2000

Poly · 29 July 2008, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy JC

I guess any formula only works for a limited number of years, otherwise my 18yr old Searider would be worth about -£2000

no its a reducing balance approach not a straight line approach.

So - new boat £20,000 depreciating 10% per annum:

new - worth 20,000 the boat loses 10% (£2000) this year... so
1yr old - worth 18,000 the boat loses 10% (£1800) this year... so
2yrs old- worth 16,200 the boat loses 10% (£1620) this year... so
3yrs old- worth 15,580 the boat loses 10% (£1558) this year... etc
...
...
18yrs old- worth ~ £3000... assuming it still has the orginal engine etc.

if it was a 10k boat new - it would be worth £1500 now (18 yrs later). Its obviously not exact - and new engines, tubes, trailers are significant too.

Hugh Jardon · 29 July 2008, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

no its a reducing balance approach not a straight line approach.

So - new boat £20,000 depreciating 10% per annum:

new - worth 20,000 the boat loses 10% (£2000) this year... so
1yr old - worth 18,000 the boat loses 10% (£1800) this year... so
2yrs old- worth 16,200 the boat loses 10% (£1620) this year... so
3yrs old- worth 15,580 the boat loses 10% (£1558) this year... etc
...
...
18yrs old- worth ~ £3000... assuming it still has the orginal engine etc.

if it was a 10k boat new - it would be worth £1500 now (18 yrs later). Its obviously not exact - and new engines, tubes, trailers are significant too.

in my personal opinion this method is completely miss guided and i have proved it with every boat i have owned

i had a boat that cost me 20 k new, 10 years later i sold it for 17.5k

if you want to know your market value, consider the following

search for like boats similar to yours

phone up the people and see if they are sold or not, how long been for sale, what interest they had, if sold how quick, what extras, etc etc

after doing your own market research then put it up for sale at a realistic price you are happy with.

i was told about the method of 10% per annum but i quickly drew the opinion it would undervalue my boat so opted for my personal view of pricing.....its worked 3 x now

using the above 10%pa method my 2nd boat would have been worth 7k after 10 years, i sold it for 17.5k, only one person phoned and viewed and i used my sales tenacity on him and made the deal

Mr polwart, i believe you made a mistake in your 3 year figure, should have been 14,580 ~ approx

consider it....you have nothing to lose

Andy JC · 29 July 2008, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

no its a reducing balance approach not a straight line approach.

So - new boat £20,000 depreciating 10% per annum:

new - worth 20,000 the boat loses 10% (£2000) this year... so
1yr old - worth 18,000 the boat loses 10% (£1800) this year... so
2yrs old- worth 16,200 the boat loses 10% (£1620) this year... so
3yrs old- worth 15,580 the boat loses 10% (£1558) this year... etc
...
...
18yrs old- worth ~ £3000... assuming it still has the orginal engine etc.

if it was a 10k boat new - it would be worth £1500 now (18 yrs later). Its obviously not exact - and new engines, tubes, trailers are significant too.

Know what you're saying there Mr P but I was really only joking

I understand that the 10% reduction is cumulative and so is not 10% taken from the original purchase price each year.

My point still stands about there being a cut-off point for this theory as otherwise my boat would work out to be worth around £494 (roughly calculated by a reduction of 10% per annum) and in reality I recently paid considerably more than that and am utterly convinced it was a bargain

Stuart M · 29 July 2008, 21:33

Time of year has a large factor as well. No-one wants a boat in November but April / May different story. Just like selling a convertible car. Or a 4x4 before the budget 8-)

I think that the "look around and see what everyone else is doing" works well. It has worked for me and I know that people sent by the mortgage companies go around the local estate agents to see what other similiar house are sellinf for (or not).

The secondhand value will be related to the new value today and not the new value when purchased. I bet the cost of new boats doesn't go down as time goes on!

Poly · 30 July 2008, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy JC

My point still stands about there being a cut-off point for this theory as otherwise my boat would work out to be worth around £494 (roughly calculated by a reduction of 10% per annum) and in reality I recently paid considerably more than that and am utterly convinced it was a bargain

Andy - does your boat still have its original tubes, engine and trailer? Did a SR4+boat+trailer really only cost £3300 18 years ago? In contrast Boggi's formula would work out at more like... £700 for the same starting point. However as I said in my much earlier post it must depend on the "brand" of boat - so, there is a significant following of SR owners - therefore that keeps prices higher.

Poly · 30 July 2008, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

in my personal opinion this method is completely miss guided and i have proved it with every boat i have owned

i had a boat that cost me 20 k new, 10 years later i sold it for 17.5k

And there are even some "classic" sailing vessels worth more now than their build cost - just as some classic cars sell for more than the original list price.

Quote:

using the above 10%pa method my 2nd boat would have been worth 7k after 10 years, i sold it for 17.5k, only one person phoned and viewed

how do you find these suckers?

Quote:

and i used my sales tenacity on him and made the deal

the original questioner doesn't want to get into using his "sales tenacity".

Quote:

Mr polwart, i believe you made a mistake in your 3 year figure, should have been 14,580 ~ approx

thanks for fixing my typo/mental arrithmatic.

Hugh Jardon · 30 July 2008, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

And there are even some "classic" sailing vessels worth more now than their build cost - just as some classic cars sell for more than the original list price.

how do you find these suckers?
the original questioner doesn't want to get into using his "sales tenacity".

thanks for fixing my typo/mental arrithmatic.

i fixed your typo but your arrithmatic is mental

Downhilldai · 30 July 2008, 23:32

Writing down the annual depreciation is an accountancy method which bears little resemblance to open market values, particularly for boats over, say 5 years old.
Best method is comparing with similar boats sold recently, as suggested by HJ. Take care to compare like with like, in terms of condition, maintenance and spec.

bedajim · 31 July 2008, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Writing down the annual depreciation is an accountancy method which bears little resemblance to open market values, particularly for boats over, say 5 years old.
Best method is comparing with similar boats sold recently, as suggested by HJ. Take care to compare like with like, in terms of condition, maintenance and spec.

Just sold the sail boat for £1000 less than we paid for it 20 years ago

so that buggers most calcs up

Mollers · 31 July 2008, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedajim

Just sold the sail boat for £1000 less than we paid for it 20 years ago

so that buggers most calcs up

I kept my Rinker for 9 yrs and sold it for £3.5k more than I paid for it.

Calc that one!

I agree, study the market and comparibles and value accordingly.
Incidently, in the 9yrs that I owned the Rinker, boat ownership in my area rocketed as we eased out of the early 90's recession. also, I'd spent a fortune on the boat having the engine rebuilt after a frost incident.

Hugh Jardon · 01 August 2008, 22:13

well thats at least 4-5 of us that think this 10% nonsense is a load of old bollocks then!!

ha ha

Bigmuz7 · 01 August 2008, 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

I kept my Rinker for 9 yrs and sold it for £3.5k more than I paid for it.

Calc that one!

I agree, study the market and comparibles and value accordingly.
Incidently, in the 9yrs that I owned the Rinker, boat ownership in my area rocketed as we eased out of the early 90's recession. also, I'd spent a fortune on the boat having the engine rebuilt after a frost incident.

But I bet things are changing now

unless Huge Garden has a better idea .. damn.. my typos

Hugh Jardon · 01 August 2008, 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

But I bet things are changing now

unless Huge Garden has a better idea .. damn.. my typos

are you talking about my flower pots and large connifer?

times are getting tight and i suspect with the jobs situation, fuel price and general economy lack of confidence there are less folks out there looking to slap some dosh on a boat at the moment.

but at the end of the day nothing beats some market research to see what things are selling for...due dilligence....its the only way to establish interest and what they are selling for.

Ive got some motorbikes if anyone wants any? happy to trade for a lotus elise or cateram r300 or the like