Humber build quality

[beamishken]

I dont see anything wrong in just sealing the underside of the floor which presumably is in an area intended to remain watertight , or an area which can be drained and left with the plug removed to prevent condensation damaging the usually dry floor
If the floor is marine ply then it should carry a 25 year warranty and is intended to be used below the waterline so should be prefectly good in this application a good hardwood wbp would usually be good enough
Possibly this boat ended up with a rouge batch of ply or maybe left with water in a sealed chamber either because a bung was left in for a long period or the chamber was sealed and suffered a leak via a puncture or an unnoticed manufacturing defect personally id approach humber show them the evidence and see their reaction if the care they may rectify as a gesture of goodwill as its such a young boat

[scubaqua]

Originally Posted by mick

My thinking is if its sealed both sides and got screw holes in and water gets in that's what's going to happen them

I have just bought me a 2014 Humber and will check the screw fixation. If they are fit in Sikaflex (or something) or not...

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by nugent

Poor response !


Poor response !

Terrible Resin is not even water proof,, it should have a gel wash at least !

Originally Posted by colcreate

Personally I would laminate the underside of the ply. A thinned coat of resin straight on the ply then a couple of layers of CSM and flowcoat to seal.

We laminate CSM on the underside of our wood decks and have never had a problem, they should never be permanently exposed to water unless the hull is flooded, as everyone has pointed out good fixing for consoles and seats is just as important to prevent ingress.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Cookee

We laminate CSM on the underside of our wood decks and have never had a problem, they should never be permanently exposed to water unless the hull is flooded, as everyone has pointed out good fixing for consoles and seats is just as important to prevent ingress.

Isn't it a bit like comparing a ford and a Ferrari though?
I dont have any great affinity to humber or any other make but while the humber build maybe isnt best practice it should be acceptible (with the exception or the silicone)
This boat is most likely a one off which has suffered for some other reason than the lack of treatment on the underside of the floor
I think it a little unfair to taint their name because of one bad boat
They arent the best in the market but not the most expensive either & certainly not the worst out there
Horses for courses in my opinion

[colcreate]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Isn't it a bit like comparing a ford and a Ferrari though?

Even using your analogy we can still draw comparisons;
Both offer production built vehicles which have to follow a pre-determined assembly schedule.
Both are fairly useless if someone forgets to fit wheels.
Both will be adversely affected if say someone forgets to apply primer before painting.
Both will fail if the nuts are not torqued correctly.
Both need to be fit for purpose as consumer products, regardless of retail value.

Originally Posted by beamishken

This boat is most likely a one off which has suffered for some other reason than the lack of treatment on the underside of the floor.

and that's the purpose of this discussion, to identify the "other reason" and who or what might have been responsible. Why has the underside of this deck suffered in such a short time?

If it turns out that a perfectly good production assembly has been ruined by a subsequent bad fitting, then that's a lesson/reminder to us all and especially for the manufacturer if they completed the build.

Then there are the other fit-out issues that have been found....

Would you really be happy to be the punter who bought the "one bad boat" and just shrug it off as "horses for courses"? Especially when the original cost of ensuring a 'good boat' was so minimal to the manufacturer and maybe a case of just attention to detail!

[Max...]

Apart from the very limited reply from Humber posted earlier have they been invited to reply or been posted a link to this topic?

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Think nugents had some kind of contact, but not sure from who....


Hi res Anglesey pics

Alex Whittaker / Shedpix Donations for Round Anglesey Macmillan 2014 https://www.justgiving.com/Rib-net

[Bigtalljv]

Although it's a very different situation I'd be hesitant to jump in here if I were the manufacturer after what they other guy has taken/is taking. their answer is pretty concise and clear and their current policy is acceptable build practice. What has happened to this boat after it left their factory is generally only a good guess. Of course none of the PO's have said they did anything.

I work in IT amazing how many bad things happen without a single person pushing a button.

Jason

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by colcreate

Even using your analogy we can still draw comparisons;
Both offer production built vehicles which have to follow a pre-determined assembly schedule.
Both are fairly useless if someone forgets to fit wheels.
Both will be adversely affected if say someone forgets to apply primer before painting.
Both will fail if the nuts are not torqued correctly.
Both need to be fit for purpose as consumer products, regardless of retail value.



and that's the purpose of this discussion, to identify the "other reason" and who or what might have been responsible. Why has the underside of this deck suffered in such a short time?

If it turns out that a perfectly good production assembly has been ruined by a subsequent bad fitting, then that's a lesson/reminder to us all and especially for the manufacturer if they completed the build.

Then there are the other fit-out issues that have been found....

Would you really be happy to be the punter who bought the "one bad boat" and just shrug it off as "horses for courses"? Especially when the original cost of ensuring a 'good boat' was so minimal to the manufacturer and maybe a case of just attention to detail!

Hi I wasn't trying to trivialise the fault on this boat,obviously its a serious issue & I think if humber values their reputation they should do something about it if its a manufacturing defect
The point I was making was that sealing the underside of the deck rather than laminating it should not lead to the kind of deterioration seen here
No doubt there will be things humber & other manufacturers could do to improve their build quality & each item in itself wouldnt cost much in isolation but to build a product to a price money needs to be saved and every little saving mounts up
It will be interesting to see the outcome & find a definitive reason for the problem but untill then it's unfair to suggest all humbers suffer poor build quality
As I said no affinity but trying to give a little ballance to the discussion

[butty]

But polyester resin is not a waterproof barrier, that is why flow coat or gel coat is applied on top of resin infused chopped stand matt and in others cases a two pack primer is used to seal the porous surface.....

I have seen some ribs build with gel washed / flow coated underside of a laminated deck and the inside surface of the hull is flow coated as well rather than just left bare....

It all depends who much effort, time and money is wanted to be put into the build of a boat.

[Chris]

This is from the marine ply association of Australia. Says you shouldn't enclose both faces otherwise it can't breathe !?

[kerny]

Originally Posted by Chris

This is from the marine ply association of Australia. Says you shouldn't enclose both faces otherwise it can't breathe !?

Makes sense Chris, also wood needs moisture to stop it drying out so getting water inside the hull shouldn't do it any harm as long as it can dry out . I always leave my bung open so that air can circulate inside the hull when not in use.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Isn't it a bit like comparing a ford and a Ferrari though?
I dont have any great affinity to humber or any other make but while the humber build maybe isnt best practice it should be acceptible (with the exception or the silicone)
This boat is most likely a one off which has suffered for some other reason than the lack of treatment on the underside of the floor
I think it a little unfair to taint their name because of one bad boat
They arent the best in the market but not the most expensive either & certainly not the worst out there
Horses for courses in my opinion

My point is that we don't gel wash or topcoat the underside of floors where we use ply. A layer of CSM is more than adequate protection for something that isn't submerged - if the hull is flooded for most of the time there are more issues!

[cjj216]

As with other OP owners, I'm watching this with interest. I always leave the bow anchor locker bung and the stern/bilge bung out. I think I got this from humber Paul? I'm sure he asked humber about this and that's what they recommended.
I also seem to remember seeing some pics from humber showing the build up and finish of the inside of the hull before the deck went on. I'm sure it showed a channel or duct linking the front and rear bungs?
In other words, water couldn't get in to the hull without making a hole through the deck (screwing right through it) or having a mishap and penetrating the hull from outside.
Humber Paul.... Was it you that posted those pics or am I imagining things!?!

[mick]

Originally Posted by Chris

This is from the marine ply association of Australia. Says you shouldn't enclose both faces otherwise it can't breathe !?

Makes sense to me as I said earlier my RB is bare on the inside

[HUMBER P4VWL]

I did phone humber re the bungs and was passed from sales to someone in the manufacturing team, which was reassuring, and yes they suggest we leave both bungs out as inevitably as all have said on here, water will get in one way or another. Hatch seals or bungs expanding and contracting. It's best being drained than stagnant and filling up.

By leaving it open they said it drains and lets air through, rather than water building up. The only downside being it would sit lower in the water if one of two things happen. 1. You stuff the boat 2. Your bilge/transom well pump fails and the boat floods. Either way, the difference would be negligible.

I didn't post the pics on the under deck layout, but I recall too there were some posted. There are two ridges/struts (??) that run the length of the boat a 1/3 of the way in from each side to support the deck and provide a channel from bow to stern, that drains water from the bow locker to the transom well.

I'm still confident in Humber considering their instructions and responses to me. There are thousands of hulls out there that are solid and ours after 5 yrs seems solid too.

The Original poster Nugent's boat seems a bit if a mess. He subsequently stated it had undergone a poor fit out and suspected that did not help.

He also stated that he had to be careful with his words, due to a phone call. I'm still v curious as to what this was about and from whom? He hasn't posted much since. I think considering the inference on Humber build quality, whether intended or not, he ought to follow up....

It came the day after I asked them for clarification on build process. Coincidence? I don't know.


Hi res Anglesey pics

Alex Whittaker / Shedpix Donations for Round Anglesey Macmillan 2014 https://www.justgiving.com/Rib-net

[mick]

Sound advice hp it wouldn't put me off having a Humber don't think Humber have anything to hide if you go to the factory as I have they are quite willing to show you round the works as are RB & ribcraft

[nugent]

As said previously I would still own another humber my self,

[nugent]

Nugent, has performed some surgery,

floor has to be nocked back and another coat of non slip applied, with the relevant masking applied where required to give nice clean lines

,, but it is transformed some what,,


nice rig now!

[HUMBER P4VWL]

So have you replaced the whole deck?


Hi res Anglesey pics

Alex Whittaker / Shedpix Donations for Round Anglesey Macmillan 2014 https://www.justgiving.com/Rib-net