I didn’t know Humber made submarines as well as RIB’s

[MeMe]

Originally Posted by Jono

Where's PD when you really need him?.......

.......he'll be sat "on the fence" reading a dictionary and critiquing other peoples posts.

[Nick Hearne]

So BR are you saying that with no experience that someone should

A. buy a boat, just go out & learn the hard way you may come back!

Or

B. buy a boat, get some training/ instruction & learn from it!

Should we all forget the driving test, after all you only train to pass the test it dose not make you a good driver!
Just buy a car & away you go!

I no not think so & I hate badge collecting for badge collecting sake!
Nick

[MeMe]

.........we're all in the same boat here - pun very much intended - surely we all agree that a healthy mix is best. Personally I feel the RYA courses when taught by the right school are a superb entrance and tutorial to boating. Follow these courses up with some practical experience and you've the making for a safe skipper.

After all, we're all looking to depart and return safely, just like an passanger jet !

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by Simon Hawkins

I totally agree with you bilge rat and thats why the RYA has a stipulation on 5 years experience to become an instructor. Experience is the an essential way of learning, but theory and practice is also important, after all how do you think the RNLI can go into the seas they do.

Simon Firstly There are many fine Instructors on this forum (and Jono Gorton!) so muy comments are nothing personal!

That's the problem RYA instructors don't always have that level of experience at least three of the 6 students on the course I went on didn't and only one of em failed. Peter White complained during the course that we were supposed to be learning how to teach PB2 and not learning PB2. ( they made me look good though!)

One of the people on the course, who did qualify was 17, another one didn't have an advanced ticket and only been on a powerboat about twenty times. The nobber that failed ran the MOB (fender fortunately!) down three times and it was his boat!

My point really is that with the Trainig acasemy's being a business then the selection criteria isn't goin to be adherd to strictly cos it's a bum on a seat.

I enjoy being a trainer and I think one day I will be one of the best around (if passion's got anything to do with it!) but after going on that course I would definitely want to see any instructors log book in the future.

I would also believe that schools should be dedicated to power or sailing and not mix the two, you want your instructor and school to be commited to the subject and not just creating an income stream.

[Simon Hawkins]

Thanks for that rogue wave. I agree that their are some bad schools out their and I certainly wouldnt work with them. I teach because it is a passion of mine and consider I have been in some quite severe conditions to have the experience to pass on to others.

[-Dan-]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

One of the people on the course, who did qualify was 17

Age means what?
He may have been around boats for years, and have more experiance than anyone on the course.
If he was useless, then fair enough, but age is no measure of skill.

Dan

[Rogue Wave]

Dan

I wasn't actually having a go at the youngster but now you have brought the subject up it's all about standards

To be an instructor you have to 5 years experience or 1 years commercial experience. There ain't many insurance companies around that will insure an under 18 year old commercial driver. So Young matey must have to have 5 years experience. You cannot drive a powerboat without supervision until you are 14 add 5 years on to that and you gotta be 19 to meet the entry criteria for an instructors exam.

If you reread my comments you may come to the opinion that I was actually attacking the fact that the RYA bends it's criteria which then makes statements such as Simons innacurate, which isn't right or fair on those that believe in the RYA traing program. (which I do!)

Lets say you had a choice between being trained by Alan Priddy or the 17 year old I was on the course with, who would you choose?

Along with impotence , incontinence and a bigger overdraft age brings a certain amount of experience and people skills which i think would halp in a training situation

[Andy Stevens]

depends if the 17 year old was male of female!

[Daniel TD5]

Originally Posted by Bilge Rat

Thats crap and i whole hartedly agree with Alan Priddy on this issue, no amount of courses or qualifications can make up for good experience at sea in rough conditions, knowing the theory is one thing putting it into practice is another, things happen and issues arise that you cant account for, its how you handle and manage them at the time that makes the difference, no course will ever teach you self reliance and the ability to trouble shoot a problem when and if it happens, and things do happen and your actions as skipper can result in someone getting hurt, live with it its a fact of boating ! and if your not willing to take that responsability on then stay home and take up knitting.

I dont have my advanced yet but i go miles out to sea, navigate my way around using both GPS and compass and chart and regualy go out at night, and i've been out when others have been comming back in PD will verify this

but rich your mad

me and phil have whats called bilge rat the test pilot mode

as you have only two setting on your boat stopped and flat out we just sit back and watch you if you roll your rib then its unsafe to proseed if you make it then it ok for us to follow

dan

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by Alan Priddy

Proves my point. Just because you have sat an exam and got a piece of paper that says " You know what you are doing" it means sweet F all.
Experiance is the only test of time not RYA Exams Alan P

very true but education not legislation is the RYA mantra its ashame the guy driving the rib made a balls up but he would have at least now learned an important lesson in correct trim in a following sea so his experience has at least increased a little ,agree with some of the other comments re training schools being power only and instructors being passionate about what they do , and are they delivering good courses ive never met a rich instructor who's only income is from tuition but i have met a lot of happy instructors who love the life and enjoy sharing thier knowledge, Alan Priddy is a man of vast experience and respect to him for his amazing achievements don't know of anyone with his expeirence or passion for what he does and knowledge of what he does who could match him,but the RYA does serve a purpose for some so come on guys don't knock the RYA BUT DO KNOCK THE CRAPPY SCHOOLS
regards tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[Rogue Wave]

Tim why don't you become a trade member?

[tim griffin]

can't afford it im one of those skint instructors
regard tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[Simon Hawkins]

Thanks for that tim. Good to see you on board supporting the RYA flag. As we know the RYA are endeavoring to rid of the crappy schools.

[tim griffin]

regards Tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[Simon Hawkins]

Tim.Cant believed you asked me that question. Blue yellow rib etc.

[tim griffin]

yes i know i just twigged my self never very good at remembering surnames am laughing at myself now sorry mate
regards tim
www.griffmarineservices.co.uk

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Simon Hawkins

When going down the wave ease the power off but not too for the wave to come over the back of the boat and possibly make you broach, then at the bottom of the wave put the power on too lift the bow and ride up the back of the nest wave. By doing this you will not drive into the back of the wave and stuff the bow.

No this is wrong. Assuming a sensible combination of outboard power and rib then the power should be applied going down the face of the wave. this is essential to keep the bows up or she surely will stuff into the back of the next wave. The power should be backed off going up the back of the next wave so the bow doesn't fly off the top, but gently cruises over the top.

In practicse this will mean just gently dipping the throttle as you go over the top of the wave and then back on with the power to keep the bow up as you run down the face of the wave.

You won't get all the waves right and occasionally you go over the top to find a big hole but keep the power on. This is hard work and should not be understimated how tiring it can be so do change drivers if its an option.

The reason breaking waves are dangerous are they contain lots of air not water so won't support a boat! or allow the prop to drive properly and you end up at the mercy of the wave and risk being over taken or broached, something quite dangerous.

Pete

[Simon Hawkins]

Pete.That is my theory but better said by you. Obviously you do not want to drop off the top of the next wave, the reason for putting power on up the next wave is to lift the bow wave then easing the throttle once reaching the crest. You will have to keep the boat travelling faster than the wave behind you to prevent the boat from broaching. As said by you and me in breaking waters their is too much turbulance and the propellor will not grip landing you in a whole load of problems

[Pete7]

Simon, you should be able to travel faster than most waves around the UK, in a rib, but the problem is you have to loose speed going up the back of the wave or you will come flying off the top and land with a big crash. so power off going up so you gently cruise over the top in control. Going down you must get the bow up so trim out and power on. Dropping the power going down the face of a wave will cause the bow to drop and in to the back of the next wave you go.

Pete

http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread....ht=green+north

.

[Simon Hawkins]

Pete agreed. However too mcuh speed will drive you staright into the back of the next wave thus putting the bow under the water. Power down the wave a little faster than the following wave then sit on the back of the next and gently ease over the crest then power on again but not too much. I think we are both getting at the same thing.