I hate to say 'I told you so', but...

[Manos]

The bottom line is as I see it that there is no regulation regarding private boats in the UK what so ever and there SHOULD BE (IMHO of course) to minimise accidents (fatal sometimes)

[chrisallse]

We could all just take up Bingo.....that should be safe

[Keith Hart]

I'm with Brian on this.

We have had simmilar threads in the past on subjects such as compulsory life jackets. I would NEVER go to sea without a LJ but I would NOT want them made compulsory, for example.

The point of my original posting with the news item was that BECAUSE of this idiot's behaviour some people would call for legislation. And I WAS RIGHT wasn't I?

Keith Hart

[Simon B]

Sadly yes entirely right. Legislation in itself is nothing without enforcement and at sea this is hard. Possibly one option would be to ask the purchaser some questions;
Are you an idiot?
Do you have any idea what you are doing?
Do you routinely ignore sanguine advice?

If all answers are yes then steer the prospective purchaser into a career in politics.

[chrisallse]

You forgot....have you had a lobotomy

[Manos]

OK since some members think (believe) that recreational boating should not be regulated I would be very interested to know what are your thoughts about minimising stupid and some times fatal boating accidents.

[ashbypower]

Originally Posted by Manos

OK since some members think (believe) that recreational boating should not be regulated I would be very interested to know what are your thoughts about minimising stupid and some times fatal boating accidents.

If we knew that one we would be worth a fortune, think of the numbers that are maimed and killed on UK roads every year, these far outweigh boating accidents!! And these are in the main caused by trained and licenced people!!

Regards

Brian

[chrisallse]

Interestingly, If you examine the number of 'Boat' rescues that the RNLI carry out it is significantly less than rescues involving non-boating people, IE swimmers, walkers etc. So perhaps we should regulate the public?

[Jono]

Originally Posted by chrisallse

....So perhaps we should regulate the public?

Or just cull them?

[Manos]

Originally Posted by chrisallse

Interestingly, If you examine the number of 'Boat' rescues that the RNLI carry out it is significantly less than rescues involving non-boating people, IE swimmers, walkers etc.

Chris I'm sorry but that doesn't reply to the question

[chrisallse]

What question?

[Phil Chitty]

I've just sat and read this entire thread for the first time and alot of people have brought up alot of interesting points and opinions.

I am, for my sins, a construction health, safety and occupational health advisor for a borough council in Surrey.
I spend my whole day advising, training, teaching and giving guidance on legislation set by the UK government and from our friends in Europe.
The easiest thing about my job is that everything to me is black or white. Legislation gives me a set of health and safety rules that, as far as I'm concerned, should never be broken. BUT, every day of my working life I end up putting people on notice, issuing improvement instructions and ensuring those who do break the rules are dealt with appropriately.

What I'm trying to say here is that, although Manos makes a fair point about legislation and enforcement, sometimes it really doesn't make any difference.

Training may be the answer to this but you will always get the person that buys a boat straight from the local paper and is off to sea the same day with no experience and even less common sense.

We can only hope these people get by without mishap and with the help of us out there with a little more experience.


Phil

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Phil Chitty

. BUT, every day of my working life I end up putting people on notice, issuing improvement instructions and ensuring those who do break the rules are dealt with appropriately.




Phil

...and otherwise enforcing rules, writen by people who have never made anything in their life, on people who are struggling in a global economy against countries that have no such handicap! One of my competitors, based in India, lost 32 lives in ONE incident last year, but I am hamstrung by a set of rules that is likely to put the UK out of business. Now, I still believe that safe practices make for a better, and therefore more productive, workplace. What P*****s me off, big time, is why the government enforces the rules in this country, but is quite happy to encourage people here to buy products from countries that don't face their social responsibilities! India? China? Mexico? South Africa? Yet there are people who will happily buy RIBs made in these places " because labour is cheap".... figured out why labour is cheap there yet?...

[chrisallse]

Originally Posted by Phil Chitty

I've just sat and read this entire thread for the first time and alot of people have brought up alot of interesting points and opinions.

I am, for my sins, a construction health, safety and occupational health advisor for a borough council in Surrey.
I spend my whole day advising, training, teaching and giving guidance on legislation set by the UK government and from our friends in Europe.
The easiest thing about my job is that everything to me is black or white. Legislation gives me a set of health and safety rules that, as far as I'm concerned, should never be broken. BUT, every day of my working life I end up putting people on notice, issuing improvement instructions and ensuring those who do break the rules are dealt with appropriately.


Phil

As you can see Phil I am also in the Const Ind, I sit on a safety Steering group and run tight sites when it comes to safety but no amount of legislation will stop a prat being a prat.

[Phil Chitty]

Originally Posted by chrisallse

As you can see Phil I am also in the Const Ind, I sit on a safety Steering group and run tight sites when it comes to safety but no amount of legislation will stop a prat being a prat.

And that is a brick wall in life that, sometimes, is there for no more reason than to dent with your head.

Legislation and the compensation culture that has developed in this country will not go away and I find myself with my back to the wall on a daily basis.

You're only to right in what you say too Jono. I just came back from the fair island of Kos in Greece. (Not picking on Greece Manos, Honest )

I saw things going on out there on sites that made me turn away with fingers crossed that no one was going to get hurt that day.

I honestly don't know the answer to this.
I firmly believe that there is far to much legislation in this country but what is the alternative. Its not put there to protect the individual anymore, its there to protect the company.

The safety issues in the original report at the beggining of this thread are the cause of the individual and no one else. He is a fool who not only put his own life and welbeing at risk but that of others also. That just makes him a dangerous fool and the sort of person we all never hope to meet in our boating.

I just hope there aren't to many more like that out there.

[DGR]

I agree - just been away in Cyprus for a week - and I'm sure that they don't know what a bouyancy aide/LJ is for!! Waterskiing - yes, ringos - yes, taking you back to your hotel/resort, at 30+ knots in open water , NO!!

Bizarre.

D...

[Cookee]

I think you will find your question has been answered!

Originally Posted by ashbypower

If we knew that one we would be worth a fortune, think of the numbers that are maimed and killed on UK roads every year, these far outweigh boating accidents!! And these are in the main caused by trained and licenced people!!

Regards

Brian

[Brian]

Manos
I will answer your question.
Our job as boaters is to train ourselves to the highest standard we can.
To encourage others to do the same, by joining and forming clubs and internet forums like this, and by peer pressure if necessary.
And to help all other boaters at sea in whatever way we can.

Our job is not to interfere with someone elses life by making them get a bit of paper for whatever activity you believe necessary. The number of boating accidents is tiny compared to some of life's other problems. For example, I am a motorist too. To stop 3500 people being killed pa in the UK alone I propose a new law. Nobody gets a driving license till they are 30 years old, all cars to be automatics and to be fitted with 30mph governors and the driving test be elevated to University degree standard. That may cut the number of deaths and injuries, but would you vote for it?

I think you may be pointing the wrong people at the wrong target. You are, I am sure, a very responsible person and you run an outfit renting out powerboats to the public. Hmm. Now then let me see. I dont think you should hire a boat out to someone who is not at the level of RYA Instructor. Certainly all passengers must also be qualified in case they have to take over control of the boat. At least one crew member must be a properly trained paramedic. All aboard must wear full lifejackets 100% of the time.............I could go on. But you see where I am coming from? My "proposal" my be jolly sensible an may reduce the number of your clients that get hurt. But is it worth it?

[Matt Riley]

I agree with education rather than legislation, as firstly, if it was compulsory to have a PB 2, it would possibly end up lowering the standard/ value of the qualification - e.g. if A levels were compulsory would the level of difficulty go up, or drop further?

The other point is this - with regards to restrictive licensing and legislation, currently, the roads are by far the best example. There has been a new study in the netherlands(i think) and also on a stretch of road near Bristol. They removed all road signs and all white lines and pavements, and the number of accidents dropped. They attributed this to the fact that if you treat drivers like zombies, then they will behave like zombies, however if you let them make their own decisions, and be responsible for the consequences, they will be more alert, and better drivers.

Or...

The RYA could educate rather than legislate the salesmen to offer or recommend some basic training for new owners, possibly through the BMIF, as many of these incidents occur on their first outing without supervision.

[Scary Des]

On average 12500 people die each year from accidents of which over half (6600) are more than 65 years old.
28% of deaths caused by accident occur on the roads.
32% of deaths caused by accident occur at home.
365 people die each year due to ‘Misadventure during surgical care’
In 2000 25 people died due to ‘Water transport accidents’
And 100000 people die each year from smoking related disease.

What are we worried about If we want to save lives we should ban smoking , getting old and homes all of which are very dangerous when compared to going to sea.

I’ve just had an invention, a home life jacket that works like a car air bag and goes off at the first sign of danger. Des