I know technically an engine question but...

badbaws · 14 September 2006, 22:29

I have just bought Biggles Avon Searider 4m...

Now the dilemma engine.. go new or secondhand.. I know probably like me many of you will have had the same dilemma do I spend my hard earned money on something new and shiny and loose lots of money when I turn the key.. or do I buy something older and hope for the best or as I have found over the years I loose a day of boating as something goes wrong. These are engines I always get serviced when i buy them and use properly. So i am looking for a new engine I think... Cos the old Mariner 25 I used to ahve that I stripped and rebuilt had no problems but is too small now..

All 2 strokes...
So who likes Tohatsu.. A brand new 2006 50HP ELOPT only £2700...
A 50 Yamaha 2006 ELOPT only £3600
or a Mariner 50 ELOPT only £3400...

I want the yam but is £900 more than tohatsu, all with 2 year warranty...
So who has a Tohatsu and rates them and who thinks they are cheap rubbash.

I have an old bomb proof 40 mariner.. manual start, old school chug chug, but it is only a short shaft.. I need a long.. other wise could keep the old thing forever!! Can you lengthen the shaft leg?

Alex

Nos4r2 · 14 September 2006, 22:37

Changing the leg would essentially mean buying an engine with a blown powerhead and swapping the whole leg, clamp etc. About a 2 hour job if the powerhead comes off without siezed bolts.

Those mariners are cheap as chips when the powerheads are trash though-I sold one with a cooked powerhead for £120 last year and they regularly appear on ebay.

The gearbox spares from the short shaft would fit though (apart from the driveshaft) and the whole exercise would leave you with a lot of free spares-and the advantage that you know the engine.

jwalker · 14 September 2006, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbaws

..I have an old bomb proof 40 mariner.. manual start, old school chug chug, but it is only a short shaft.. I need a long.. other wise could keep the old thing forever!! Can you lengthen the shaft leg?

I've seen it done on a 40 Mariner, the Yamaha type, using a spacer casting. I'm not sure if it was a genuine kit or whether they were made to suit.

Nos4r2 · 14 September 2006, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

I've seen it done on 40 Mariner, the Yamaha type, using a spacer casting. I'm not sure if it was a genuine kit or whether they were made to suit.

Was it ex-RNLI by any chance? Apparently they use a shaft halfway between short and long on some engines.

It'd probably mean a driveshaft spacer too.

badbaws · 14 September 2006, 22:44

Or shoudl I just get a nice shiny new engine!!! and sell the old one!!

badbaws · 14 September 2006, 22:46

Not an ex RNLI.. this was just a short shaft sorry.. standard shaft. I think it is a late 80's engine.. probably used and abused by others over the years.. but it still chugs on all day.. not like those nice Optimax engines.. that don't like saltwater..rain water or boats!!
You don't need a laptop with these old engines.. just a hammer and a new set of plugs to deal with the low speed carbon on the plugs..

Nos4r2 · 14 September 2006, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbaws

Or shoudl I just get a nice shiny new engine!!! and sell the old one!!

It's definitely the cheaper option-there's 1000's of ex RNLI 40's out there. Depends if you want to do it yourself or not and save on the labour charge. If not, I'd personally buy a new engine.

The powerhead swap sounds like a lot of hassle but it's not really as long as the powerhead bolts are OK and the donor engine is OK bar the powerhead. I've done a powerhead swap on pullstart 50 mercs using 1 good engine, one siezed engine and a spare powerhead in 8 hours-and had 2 running engines afterwards.

badbaws · 14 September 2006, 22:59

I took the powerhead out of my old mariner 25 and managed to get it back in agian and the engine was fine.. but I guess I like powertrim and electric start now.. the wife can just about start a 10hp.. the 40.. no chance..

So yes I can justify buying a new engine as otherwise my wife won't be able to start it!! I am only thinking of her..

codprawn · 14 September 2006, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbaws

All 2 strokes...
So who likes Tohatsu.. A brand new 2006 50HP ELOPT only £2700...
A 50 Yamaha 2006 ELOPT only £3600
or a Mariner 50 ELOPT only £3400...

I want the yam but is £900 more than tohatsu, all with 2 year warranty...
So who has a Tohatsu and rates them and who thinks they are cheap rubbash.

Alex

Everyone I know with a tohatsu swears by them - reliable and loads of power - also a great price. They are used a hell of a lot in zapcat racing.

Check the weights of the engines - I think the Mariner is a 4 cylinder? so will be a lot heavier. Also which Tohatsu are you after - the new TLDi is very efficient but heavier than the standard 2 stroke and no doubt more expensive!!!

badbaws · 14 September 2006, 23:44

Model no. 50 EPTO s/l 3c ----------- Tohatsu 50HP ------------- £2695
Starter: Electric .---- Control: Remote----- Stroke: 2 Stroke -----. Tilt: Power trim ------Weight 72kg ----Shaft lenght 15" 20" or 25"

Oil injected engine

All the 50's seem to be 3 cyl..

Nos4r2 · 15 September 2006, 00:09

The Mariner is still the same engine under the hood as 13 years ago. I think that says something-but then I've got one and love it

. I believe it's a downrated 60 which means it'll last well too.

You may already have the holes in your console in the right place too-the previous engine (4cyl merc) that was on your boat had the Commander remotes fitted to it.

The only real problem I've had is that I occasionally knock the choke with my knee when thrown about and it stops the engine-but it takes an awkward landing to do that. Oh, and it's quite wide so to get an auxiliary on the transom you'll probably need an auxiliary clamp.

Seems good on 2-stroke oil too.

badbaws · 15 September 2006, 00:21

The Tohatsu 50 is about 20 kilos lighter aswell.. but I think it is all to do with the mind.. do I want a tohatsu... Who would buy a Tohatsu? would you rather pay more for Mariner or Yamaha?

Nos4r2 · 15 September 2006, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbaws

The Tohatsu 50 is about 20 kilos lighter aswell.. but I think it is all to do with the mind.. do I want a tohatsu... Who would buy a Tohatsu? would you rather pay more for Mariner or Yamaha?

Depends on resale value I guess-are you going to keep the boat for the life of the engine? Some people have posted that they've been offered a lot less when selling their boat because it has a tohatsu on it-but then they are a lot cheaper etc....
I've not heard a bad thing about the tohatsus apart from that-and they have the added advantage of a metal impeller.

badbaws · 15 September 2006, 01:03

Yams are nice, but overpriced... and secondhand harder to find.. but come re-sale sell for more.. depends how long I heep engine I suppose..

Nos4r2 · 15 September 2006, 01:17

Well...

If you're gonna buy 2nd hand then now is getting towards the time to buy-prices are starting to fall.
If you can get a good 2nd hand motor now you'll be able to sell it with no depreciation in the spring if you want a new one.
But then you might well be able to get a good deal on a new one at the boat show...

Might be worth considering that you've already got the mounting holes in the transom for a Yam 4stroke-but measure them up anyway-it might be that something else will fit. It'll save turning your transom into a colander. Don't forget there's been at least 3 motors on there before.

badbaws · 15 September 2006, 11:15

£2675 from Powertech Marine in OSuthampton can collect it now.. so gonna do that.. Got an offer of £3295 for a 2006 50 Mariner ELPTO.. but tohatsu still beats it on price..
Alex

Biggles · 15 September 2006, 11:36

Alex,

If buying new Tohatsu has it on price and I take it its PTT etc. They aren't too bad on fuel consumption. My 40 used to do 2 miles to the litre. Different boat though. Bad bits on the Tohatsu, They seem a bit flimsier in the leg and they are bloooooody Noisy.

badbaws · 15 September 2006, 11:38

Power trim, oil inj, elec start... should be good..
Can't complain at that price.. especially with a 2 year warranty too...

codprawn · 15 September 2006, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbaws

Power trim, oil inj, elec start... should be good..
Can't complain at that price.. especially with a 2 year warranty too...

Tohatsu are Nissan in the rest of the World - they really are pretty much bullet proof which is why they are used so much in racing - I would go for one no probs!!!

Searider · 15 September 2006, 16:56

Ask Bedajim, he's got a Tohatsu 50 on a 4m Searider. Went round the IOW allright.