Idiots...

[Biggles]

No excuse for not wearing a lifejacket on a small fast boat in 2007.

[codprawn]

What about in cars or on riverbanks???

[alt]

Originally Posted by codprawn

What about in cars or on riverbanks???

You're methods of arguing are laughable. That's like saying 'Why dont you wear a seatbelt in a RIB'

1) Chances of being flung off the riverbank are quite slim.

2) What good would a lifejacket be in a car? You're still stuck inside the car, all a lifejacket will make you do is stick to the roof... you'll still drown.

[Jonny Fuller]

RIBnet, the 'World Safety Police'!....Jeez.

I agree, the kid should be wearing a lifejacket, but the way you lot make it your business to track down and expose this stuff beggars belief!
Your obsession with Bowie Knives and safety kit never ceases to amaze, have you realy got nothing better to worry about all the time than what other people are doing? get your own lives for gods sake.

Originally Posted by Biggles

Of course he'll be an expert with hundreds of hours experience !!!!!

Goes without saying! he's a rib owner isn't he. (no doubt a loft full of worthless certificates in needlework, domestic science and cycling preficiencies too )

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by alt

You're methods of arguing are laughable. That's like saying 'Why dont you wear a seatbelt in a RIB'

1) Chances of being flung off the riverbank are quite slim.

2) What good would a lifejacket be in a car? You're still stuck inside the car, all a lifejacket will make you do is stick to the roof... you'll still drown.

No I was just trying to point out that the number of people who drown falling off boats is much smaller than in other many other cases.

I feel that many people will start to rely on lifejackets as a substitute for teaching their kids to swim which is far more important!!!

[nikster]

sorry - im with Johnny Fuller on this - your taking this way to far and to the extreme without acurate knowledge of anything...

Look closely at the pictures again.....

1. The rib is NOT on the plane speed is circa 10 kts

1a The kid and mum are both on the engine cover which is a teak laid seating area with lumbar support not STANDING on a seat like a single jockey....

2. By law of averages the salty old sea dog in the primary picture is likely to be the skipper and appears to have a grasp of high seas.

3. My daughter is 4 - swims like nemo and has spent most of the latter part of the summer jumping off the side of the boats we have been operating - quite happily.....

Bottom line is - dont judge a book by its cover........ like codders said at the beginning - when we were kids we never had anything like what is available today - and whilst it WOULD have been sensible for the kid to wear a BA - it is not compulsory over here........

[genoa]

Well,
as one who freely admits to having been responsible for an accident involving a child (10yr old thrown from rib in flat water when an unexpected wake wave dislodged her) I'd like to give you her side ...
Talking to her afterwards she said "I didnt know what had happened. It took several seconds to figure out why I was wet, and I still dont really know how it happened"
Now she is a good swimmer, she has spent years on boats and is savvy, but she was disoriented. She had a BA on and this kept her relatively safe (if she had knocked her self out on the A frame as she nearly did - maybe a different story)
She is still happy to go round the harbour (6knt speed limit) with no BA on, it impeeds her ability to help with mooring lines etc, but she does not like to go where OTHER BOATS can be causing wake or where overfalls are likely to disrupt the smooth water without her BA. I believe this is a mature attitude.

Adults should take the same for young children, I believe it is better practise to encourage people in all fields to learn risk assessment and use COMMON SENSE, without having laws. - This is what has lead to the current situation - "If you are allowed to do it, it must be safe" rather than, "If you are allowed to do it, you should ASSESS whether it is safe"

When I clean the local lake of branches etc, and am on my own I'd put a rope around me even in 2 foot of water, because the RISK was much different to if there was someone else who could raise the alarm WHEN I slip in.

Relevance to the thread : Teach people to be responsible, make sure they are aware of the risks by telling them what has happened to others (like me and my daughter) but dont tell them what they must and must not do. They will never learn to think for themselves when a new situation arrives.

Rant over ...

[Jonny Fuller]

Originally Posted by genoa

10yr old thrown from rib in flat water when an unexpected wake wave dislodged her

The procecution rests it's case! ban all ribs, they're unsafe.

Did the wave creep into the boat and 'dislodge' her, or did you as the driver just miss it/misjudge it's size relative to the capability of you/your craft?

One day I will compile a list of all the ejections from ribs listed on this site (first hand accounts only) and present that evidence in one chunk. Would love to see the arguments for how 'statisticaly' safe they are.

[Nick Hearne]

May be he just can't stand the kid & wants to kill him off!!

[timw]

Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller

RIBnet, the 'World Safety Police'!....Jeez.

the way you lot make it your business to track down and expose this stuff beggars belief!
Your obsession with Bowie Knives and safety kit never ceases to amaze, have you realy got nothing better to worry about all the time than what other people are doing? get your own lives for gods sake.




Goes without saying! he's a rib owner isn't he. (no doubt a loft full of worthless certificates in needlework, domestic science and cycling preficiencies too )

Of course I completely agree.

Usual suspects ranting on about safety....Traffic Wardens.

And what extraordinary behaviour actually sending the link to this thread to the guy selling on ebay...is this a virtual way of issuing a ticket?

...and for goodness sake, going round with a camera taking photographs of people on boats who may not be acting safely...unbelievable.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by timw

Usual suspects ranting on about safety....Traffic Wardens.

Why do discussions about safety upset you so much?

Should discussions on RIBnet be restricted to hypothetical situations? Or should users be required to preface their comments with "TimW might not agree, but in my humble opinion . . ."?

Originally Posted by timw

And what extraordinary behaviour actually sending the link to this thread to the guy selling on ebay...is this a virtual way of issuing a ticket?

A few weeks ago you seemed quite convinced that it was a good thing to do!

Originally Posted by timw

Only fair the guy gets a chance to respond to your opinion don't you think?

Originally Posted by timw

I hope one of his accusers will eventually contact him to explain what they have been saying on here.

Originally Posted by timw

The proper thing do do is for them to contact him to explain what they have been saying and ask him for his response.

Originally Posted by timw

All I'm saying is contact him first.

Originally Posted by timw

For gods sake, please contact him first to get his side of the story.

Originally Posted by timw

I am very much hoping that one of his accusers will allow him the chance to respond to this criticism by advising him of this thread.

Originally Posted by timw

Perhaps someone who so freely passes comment on his operation may care to telephone him (or her) and advise him of this thread to allow him the opportunity to respond to these posts.

John

[genoa]

Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller

Did the wave creep into the boat and 'dislodge' her, or did you as the driver just miss it/misjudge it's size relative to the capability of you/your craft?

Didn't want to give the whole story again, I accept full blame, I had a novice driving and he did the right things as instructed by me, but a bit slow, so we hit the wake of a Gin Palace at 15knots, which lifted her clean out of the bow seat. Should she have been there? Flat calm in the solent? I didnt have a problem, but the point about risk assessment is that I didn't factor in novice driver as well as girl in bow.

But Jonny, I am supporting the point about not needing "Traffic Wardens" and we shouldn't legislate - child on boat, no life jacket, must be unsafe! stuff hacks me off. When my kids are on the yot, there are some rules, (night sailing, more than F4 etc, but otherwise I am teaching them to look around them, see for themselves what the conditions are, what might happen, discuss the plans and THEN make their mind up. Laws dont help people learn! IMHO.

[Rogue Wave]

Agreed LJ's need to be mandatory

Kid was in danger! Full stop for me worse than no lifejacket was not being sat down at speed. Good news is that it would have cleared the prop at that speed and young bones are quite flexible so probably no breakages when cracked against A frame

I actually use that picture during my training courses and ask my stoodents whats wrong with the scenario!

[Jonny Fuller]

Originally Posted by genoa

Didn't want to give the whole story again, I accept full blame, I had a novice driving and he did the right things as instructed by me, but a bit slow, so we hit the wake of a Gin Palace at 15knots, which lifted her clean out of the bow seat. Should she have been there? Flat calm in the solent? I didnt have a problem, but the point about risk assessment is that I didn't factor in novice driver as well as girl in bow.

But Jonny, I am supporting the point about not needing "Traffic Wardens" and we shouldn't legislate - child on boat, no life jacket, must be unsafe! stuff hacks me off. When my kids are on the yot, there are some rules, (night sailing, more than F4 etc, but otherwise I am teaching them to look around them, see for themselves what the conditions are, what might happen, discuss the plans and THEN make their mind up. Laws dont help people learn! IMHO.

Just for the record, I reckon the sharp end is the most dangerous place to be in any fast boat travelling over a bumpy surface. This is why I hate Bowriders so much, you wouldn't get me in one one of those for love, nor money (OK, maybe an hour with Mariah Carey would be worth the risk)

The witch hunt thing is a little scarey.

My point was really that too many people on here are pre-occupied with what other people are up to, and feel it's their job to expose them, whilst at the same time prove how safety concious they are (read, 'good upright sensible citizens') A bit of an obsession I can't quite grasp. They're probably all real busy body neighbours too!

PS. from the above statement, it sounds like you think WOT would have been the right speed tpo approach the wake with the child in the bow!

[timw]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Why do discussions about safety upset you so much?

Should discussions on RIBnet be restricted to hypothetical situations? Or should users be required to preface their comments with "TimW might not agree, but in my humble opinion . . ."?

A few weeks ago you seemed quite convinced that it was a good thing to do!



John

Actually there's a big difference.

The guy they're on about on this thread is simply trying to sell his RIB and probably has no interest in the grumblings on this thread.

The other thread you refer to is somebody running a commercial operation, which various members of this forum were trying to destroy without having the nerve to contact him.

[Tomas]

Here, you can do what you damn well please, period. I have raised four children and they all spent time on the water, from infants to teens.

I HAVE NEVER HAD YOUNG CHILDREN ONBOARD ANY VESSEL OR EVEN ON THE PIER WITHOUT FLOTATION...DUHHHHHH

Screw regulation, let's have a little common sense parenting

[Downhilldai]

Originally Posted by nikster

3. My daughter is 4 - swims like nemo and has spent most of the latter part of the summer jumping off the side of the boats we have been operating - quite happily.......

Has she had lessons from Rob Jones?

[Milan]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Why do discussions about safety upset you so much?

Should discussions on RIBnet be restricted to hypothetical situations? Or should users be required to preface their comments with "TimW might not agree, but in my humble opinion . . ."?

A few weeks ago you seemed quite convinced that it was a good thing to do!











John

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by timw

Actually there's a big difference.

The guy they're on about on this thread is simply trying to sell his RIB and probably has no interest in the grumblings on this thread.

The other thread you refer to is somebody running a commercial operation, which various members of this forum were trying to destroy without having the nerve to contact him.

Ah, so now people should consult you before deciding whether someone should be given the opportunity to reply to critiscism here?

Anyway, I notice that you didn't respond to my other questions . . .

Is it just the tone of the discussions that you object to?
Should there be no discussions about things that people feel strongly about?
Or do you not like people having opinions that you don't agree with?



John

[timw]

no no..everything's fine here...just like to give my opinion.

Safety in strict moderation is my motto.