Idiots...

[alt]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Seriously though, I think the problem with people and lifejackets is that they simply don't understand that if they go in fully clothed at speed they have very little chance without one-and unless they get into that situation they won't ever understand it. By then it's a bit too late.

I once went into the water with a pair of tracksuit, tshirt and a jumper on, oh and runners too. I didnt last long threading the water before I had to reach out for the ladder.

I can swim 1 mile no problem (I do every 2-3 weeks - not setting any speed record mind you) in swimming gear, but I reckon I wouldn't last 15 minutes fully clothed

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

. . . and if the number of people having a bath each year was the same as the number of people going boating these numbers might possibly have some meaning.

However quoting raw statistic like this merely serves to make you look foolish.

Based on your posts in this thread I would say your risk assessment abilities leave a lot to be desired!

John

My "risk assessment" capabilities are actually non exsistant!!! WHY??? Because if there is ONE term that sums up this Nanny infested PC Nazi/Stalinist dictatorship we live in it's that!!!

Wonder if this post will survive.....

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by alt

I once went into the water with a pair of tracksuit, tshirt and a jumper on, oh and runners too. I didnt last long threading the water before I had to reach out for the ladder.

I can swim 1 mile no problem (I do every 2-3 weeks - not setting any speed record mind you) in swimming gear, but I reckon I wouldn't last 15 minutes fully clothed

I'm not sure how it is in Ireland, but clothes in the UK tend to have fastenings which makes them removable. Clever stuff eh?

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Limey Linda

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common
Sense,

Not bad, LL.


jky

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by codprawn

My "risk assessment" capabilities are actually non exsistant!!! WHY??? Because if there is ONE term that sums up this Nanny infested PC Nazi/Stalinist dictatorship we live in it's that!!!

You're just making yourself look foolish again. Assessing risks has nothing to do with political correctness or nannying. It's fundamental to survival. You do it all the time without even thinking about it.

Wonder if this post will survive.....

Of course it will. If you're determined to display your stupidity, why would I want to stop you?

John

[Matt]

You make decisions based on your assessment of risk almost every waking moment. It's more a misunderstanding of risk assesments that sums up your alleged Stalinist dictatorship (I assume you're referring rib.NET?)

Originally Posted by codprawn

My "risk assessment" capabilities are actually non exsistant!!! WHY??? Because if there is ONE term that sums up this Nanny infested PC Nazi/Stalinist dictatorship we live in it's that!!!

Wonder if this post will survive.....

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

You're just making yourself look foolish again. Assessing risks has nothing to do with political correctness or nannying. It's fundamental to survival. You do it all the time without even thinking about it.
Of course it will. If you're determined to display your stupidity, why would I want to stop you?

John

Yes of course assessing risks is fundamental to survival - as you quite rightly say you do it all the time without even thinking about it. What I object to is the way this government has tried to turn it into a compulsion. Did you do a risk assessment is the most common cry - of course you did from the minute you woke up - why the hell try to define common sense with a law???

As to the dictatorship I was NOT referring to Ribnet but this glorious so called democracy we live in. Oh of course people have the right to vote etc but most people tend to behave like sheep and are led by the media - as the media happens to be run by Blair's mate is it any wonder he's stayed in so long? End of political bit JK!!!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Limey Linda

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common
Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how
old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic
red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable
lessons as:

Knowing when to come in out of the rain;

Why the early bird gets the worm;

Life isn't always fair; and maybe it WAS my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't
spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not
children, are in charge).

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned
but overbearing regulations were set in place.

Reports of a 6 year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for
kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash
after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student,
only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for
doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining
their unruly children.

It declined even further when schools were required to get
parental consent to administer Calpol, sun lotion or a band-aid to a
student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and
wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments
became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received
better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself
from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for
assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman
failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a
little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and
Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son,
Reason.

He is survived by his 3 stepbrothers; I Know My Rights; Someone
Else Is To Blame, and I'm A Victim.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was
gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the
majority and do nothing.

Brilliant and well worth reading again!!!

[Tomas]

Originally Posted by Limey Linda

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense

I'm touched, yes truly touched, but don't want to admit where in mixed company.

Sign above a bar in Tortola, BVI: Curb your dogma

Just slap the pfd's on the babies and it will all be ok in the morning.

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by 9D280

If you smack your head on the Frame / cleat / side of the poontoon in the nice calm, sheltered marina / <add suitable random bizarre scenario that nobody would believe unless they actually saw it> where you end up in the water unconcious then it wouldn't matter if you were the trans atlantic swimming endurance record holder - you ain't gonna bring your mouth above water alone.

If you're unconcious, age & swimming ability become totally irrelevant. The rest is a risk assesement you have to make.


(and up this corner of the world a bouyancy aid makes quite a good extra layer to keep you warm!)

BINGO!!! - Very well said

Originally Posted by Mollers

I'm not sure how it is in Ireland, but clothes in the UK tend to have fastenings which makes them removable. Clever stuff eh?

Have you ever attmpted to do this? Most people who fall out and are separated from their boat while not wearing a PFD don't even manage to get their boots untied before drowning let alone the rest of their clothing. How much more effort is it to remove a soaked pair of blue jeans while on terra firma, let alone while trying to stay afloat? If the water is cold, the first thing to go is any manual dexterity.

By all means, learn to swim your self and make sure that your kids learn to swim, but don't for a second think that is somehow replaces the need for you or your kids to wear PFDs. What Stoo and Thomas previously said about having their very young children always wear PFDs even when near the water is just sensible risk assessment and parenting. While I'm a capable swimmer (I put myself through university by working as a lifeguard and swimming instructor), I always wear a PFD when boating. Furthermore, nobody is allowed in my boat without one.

[genoa]

To be honest, I thought the debate had moved on. This isn't simply about should that kid be wearing a lifejacket or pfd. It's about common sense

Originally Posted by Limey Linda

It declined even further when schools were required to get
parental consent to administer Calpol, sun lotion or a band-aid to a
student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and
wanted to have an abortion.


Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman
failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a
little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and
Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son,
Reason.

He is survived by his 3 stepbrothers; I Know My Rights; Someone
Else Is To Blame, and I'm A Victim.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was
gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the
majority and do nothing.

Good one Limey linda.!

Problem is, we put a child in a life jacket and tell him "you'll be safe"
THe child needs also to learn that safety involves certain aspect of learning common sense as well as simply putting a life jacket on.

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Tomas

Sign above a bar in Tortola, BVI: Curb your dogma

Owner of the dive shop I go to has a saying: "Gotta be tough if you're going to be stupid".

I tend to use that one a lot...


jky

[NickC]

Sorry to enter this late but having read through it really wound me up!

Codprawn - you have as poor a grasp of numbers as you do common sense! You can't quote absolute numbers and then infer probability. How many people have a bath and swim compared to go out in boats?? I dunno but millions probably compared to thousands! The statistical probability of drowning from boating activity is therefore massively high in comparison.

I dont wear a lifejacket generally - probably wrongly - but then I'm a good swimmer and have made that adult choice. Other adults can make their own choices. I have young kids who are still learning swim and wear jackets. Kids that young HAVE to wear a jacket or, in my opinion, it is massive negligence.

The unexpected is in the nature of boats and a child that age could go in, go under immediately, and not come up, in a matter of seconds. There may not even be a chance to turn round and pull him out - he may never have come up in the first place.

Sorry to bang on but this is an important topic and someone arguing persuasively in such a riduiculous manner that it may be OK could cost a child's life.

NICK

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by NickC

Sorry to enter this late but having read through it really wound me up!

Codprawn - you have as poor a grasp of numbers as you do common sense! You can't quote absolute numbers and then infer probability. How many people have a bath and swim compared to go out in boats?? I dunno but millions probably compared to thousands! The statistical probability of drowning from boating activity is therefore massively high in comparison.

I dont wear a lifejacket generally - probably wrongly - but then I'm a good swimmer and have made that adult choice. Other adults can make their own choices. I have young kids who are still learning swim and wear jackets. Kids that young HAVE to wear a jacket or, in my opinion, it is massive negligence.

The unexpected is in the nature of boats and a child that age could go in, go under immediately, and not come up, in a matter of seconds. There may not even be a chance to turn round and pull him out - he may never have come up in the first place.

Sorry to bang on but this is an important topic and someone arguing persuasively in such a riduiculous manner that it may be OK could cost a child's life.

NICK

I think you are both saying one and the same thing, in that, a fatality could occur potentially in both situations, but, that on the boat, it could happen in a much faster and more chaotic fasion, as the physices and dynamics of the lead up events are a lot less controllable ?


Also, as has been pointed out, regrdless of how good a swimmer you are, you may also succumb to those chaotic events, as they potentially are much more harmful on the boat ... such as hitting your head off the A frame on the way out at 50 mph, versus falling 'into' a bath say.

I think I agree though , as far as a child is concerened, the adults must take the decision that the child will be unaware of the risks, particularly when under way, and particularly when so young... so .. jackets on for me

[Tims Osprey]

Here we are then, the reason why i don't bother with this forum much anymore is because there is too many people that go on like health and safety executives. If somebody isn't wearing a life jacket then thats their problem not yours, some people seem like they have got nothing better to do than pick faults just get on with yer own boating experience and worry yourself only when yu need tu.

[NickC]

We're talking generally now about whether kids of toddler age should or shouldn't wear life jackets which I think is a perfectly valid topic for discussion.

What would you like to talk about?

[Dirk Diggler]

The obvious solution to this dilemma is not to have kids onboard!

[Limey Linda]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. The obviouse thing to do is to find something else to do with your time other than posting on this worn out thread.
Common sense will prevail, we all hope.

[The Grocer]

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

The obvious solution to this dilemma is not to have kids onboard!

Rule 1: If you're not old enough to buy a round, you're not getting on my boat.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

The obvious solution to this dilemma is not to have kids ...!

Corrected for ya, Tubby!