I'm looking to start RIBin ... help!

[sarah_muller]

Hi All,

I've been into boating for many years but I'm looking to buy or share a RIB and so I have joined RIBnet to get some advice. I've done my background and visited the recent boat show and RIB Shack Marine appear to be the leaders in sharing RIBs but this is all new to me. Can anyone give me some background on this, is it worth the money, will it really save me all that money on storage, maintenance etc? Is it a better option that buying a RIB? I also came across RIBshare on Google who offer a similar thing and I've heard Cobra RIBs are nice boats. Again, can anyone give me some useful information? RIBshare are on the East Coast but they will have a location on the south coast in 2009 according to boatsandoutboats' website. I thought they only sailed on the East Coast ; )

That's enough talking. If any of you are bored or have free time to help it would be much appreciated.

Many thanks... Sarah

[Ian Sharlot]

I have to confess that I have never looked in to boat sharing but it sound to me like when the sun shines, if it ever does, some else will be using it. when it needs a repair, you won't know who broke it. when you want to fit your own toys, you won't be able to.

Sorry, all sound negative to me.

I say buy it, own it and use it as much as you can!

[BassBoy]

Have to say I'm with Ian on this one. Though I have no experience of boat share schemes, it seems to me that you will part with much dosh, have little control, and nothing to show for it at the end of the day.

If you can, BYO.

There are loads of people hear to help with buying/training/fittings etc etc etc. Happy to give you some pointers if you ever visit Dorset.

Best of Luck
BB (ADV PB Instructor)

[Ian M]

This is all going to sound terribly one sided, but I also think that your own boat cannot be beaten. All of my boats have sat on their trailers in the front garden, and even with one that I am only part way through fitting out, I still get a fantastic buzz when I open the curtains in the morning. For me, the thrill of ownership beats hands down all of the convenience factors of letting someone else do all the work.
However, I do not know your circumstances, boat ownership might present its own difficulties for you that some of us on here do not encounter. It has to be said that just turning up and driving off in 'your' boat for the day, has to be very convenient.

[willk]

Two (well, four) guys I know have had joint owned boats - it ended in tears both times. It's a blame game mostly. I know that every time I launch for the day, something gets broken and, often, something else gets fixed. I'd hate to have to second guess another owner. Personally, I'd buy a smaller RIB and go it alone!

and, welcome to RibNet!

[Poly]

sarah,

Perhaps I can give the other side of the argument. I don't boat share but if there was a boat share in this part of the world, with the sort of boat I am interested in then I would be interested.

There are two different approaches. Either:

(1) some individuals get together and buy a boat together. This can work but can have some issues that need thought about as highlighted by others here, but actually probably the biggest ones are disagreements with your partners. Its more common in the yacht world than ribs for some reason. OR

(2) a company runs a rib sharing business where they take out a lot of the maintainence, who broke it? type issues. I think there might be differnet business models here too - as to who owns the boats etc.

I think sharing can work for you if

- You want a boat (or bigger boat) that you wouldn't be able to afford/justify on its own.
- You would only be able to use a boat a limited amount of time anyway (e.g. distance to coast, other commitments)
- You are unlikely to wake up one day and just want to use the boat
- You are the sort of person who plans to use the boat and still goes out if its a bit blowy or rainy
- You aren't particularly bothered about a boat as a status symbol or it being YOUR boat
- You are happy to base most of your boating from one place (thats not unique to sharing, and some sharing approaches will let you tow the boat elsewhere).

Unless I am mistaken SCM on here runs one of the sharing businesses. With the business approaches - possibly better to think of it as hiring a boat on a regular basis rather than owning one (although in some cases you do own a share).

Not sure how the costs compare, especially to south-coast boating. But here are some thinking points for even a relatively small (say 6m), newish boat, insurance (£300), engine servicing (£300), storage depends on where you want to store it - but for the user-friendliness that the professional sharing schemes offer (boat afloat and ready to go) you are probably looking at £2000+ a year. Flares, and even simple electronics etc can easily soak up another £300 every three years. And that doesn't include depreciation of the boat itself. I think some of the sharing schemes may provide lifejackets, waterproofs etc. Even basic training is going to set you back a good few hundred pounds. Add all that up and you are looking at probably £4K+ to get that sort of boating experience in the first year. It is quite possible to get into the second hand, diy type end of the market, store the boat in your driveway, service the engine yourself etc etc and own a small rib with a budget 10% of that - but that is not the proposition with the professional sharing schemes.

Most people on here probably own a boat themselves and so are probably of the opinion that sharing is a crazy idea. Many people here also like tinkering, tweaking and customising so the thought that the boat is not theirs to play with is alien to them.

[bedajim]

Look at how many sunny weekends we had this year, if you had a 25% share you could only of used the rib on 25% of those weekends

If the share rib is based in Southampton what happens if you want to go to Cornwall for two weeks holiday can you take your rib, there's nothing worse than watching other people using their boat when yours is on a trailer somewhere else.
Do you want to be based in one port, my wife loves to go out on the boat because we go to different places, some of them we would never of gone to without the rib

Jim

[Mollers]

I know a couple of people who boat shared, one was a disaster the other ruined an old friendship. I wouldn't be tempted in anyway. In my view, i'd go for a smaller solely owned boat rather than a bigger shared boat. Sharing schemes may work with yachts, but not small power boats.

[Poly]

In my view, i'd go for a smaller solely owned boat rather than a bigger shared boat.

even if that geatly reduced the type of boating you can do?

Sharing schemes may work with yachts, but not small power boats.

I can't see any reason why that should be the case though. I think its got to be about how its set up and the people involved. There are plenty stories of sharing disasters in the yachting world too. Possibly not such a good idea to share with anyone you already are good friends with - a bit like going into business with friends.

[sarah_muller]

Thanks everyone,

Wow, it's very one sided. It seems that people don't really like or perhaps understand the sharing (maybe I can get some marketing/PR work from them). From what I can see, RIB Shack offer a fixed monthly fee where at the end of the agreement the boat is sold and a fraction of the sale price is divided between the members whereas RIBshare costs £495 PM for 6 days use per month (with a bigger RIB) and they offer more of a leasing agreement where the operation is effectively the same but it's not an ownership operation, the share implies that you are sharing the RIB not owning it so that could remove some of the falling out issues? More like a fast car club.. What do you think? RIBshare also offer a replacement RIB service so if there are problems you get a different RIB and their boats are on pontoons so it's as they call it an 'arrive and drive' service. Keeping a RIB on my drive and having to launch it, trailor it etc is one of the put-offs of owning one. Being able to turn up and drive then leave everything else to the experts sounds brilliant. Also as Polwart lists the 'other' costs of owning a RIB they seem to pile up and with all this in mind the fixed fee deal is a good idea... isn't it? If it's £495 per month that's £82.50 per day less fuel.. That's a cheap family day out! Isn't it?

I'm still not sure... more help needed ; )

Sarah

[Poly]

Originally Posted by bedajim

Look at how many sunny weekends we had this year, if you had a 25% share you could only of used the rib on 25% of those weekends

Many people on here probably only used their boat on 1/4 of the sunny days anyway, because of work, family, other commitments. If you know two months in advance that the boat is yours that weekend then you can plan your life around that - if it happens to be sunny thats a bonus. Afterall if we only owned our boats for use in nice weather we would all have emigrated.

If the share rib is based in Southampton what happens if you want to go to Cornwall for two weeks holiday can you take your rib, there's nothing worse than watching other people using their boat when yours is on a trailer somewhere else.
Do you want to be based in one port, my wife loves to go out on the boat because we go to different places, some of them we would never of gone to without the rib

with an informal arrangement that is obviously dead easy - but at least one of the bigger sharing companies (Lynx?) does let you trailer the boat.

[Ian M]

Originally Posted by sarah_muller

Thanks everyone,

Keeping a RIB on my drive and having to launch it, trailor it etc is one of the put-offs of owning one. Being able to turn up and drive then leave everything else to the experts sounds brilliant.

Sarah

Sounds to me like you are starting to answer it for yourself. Sure there are ins and outs between the different 'share' deals, but I think that if you keep it professional, and use one of the bigger, reputable, share companies you may be OK. One point to consider, with the current financial conditions I do not beleive that we have seen anything like the full impact on the leisure industry, and the boating industry in particular yet. Check the stability of any company that you consider, make sure that your investment is safe should they go under!

[Poly]

Here are the "commercial rib sharing" schemes that I know of:

Lynx Sports

http://www.lynxsports.co.uk/lynx_rib_club.html
Not sure it is technically a share scheme - as I'm not sure you own a share of the boats, but you do share the use. Joining fee, then £600/pm. Scorpion ribs. Based Lymington. Garunteed minimum use of 42 days p.a.

Rib Shack Marine

http://www.ribshackmarine.co.uk/faqs.html
Various Ribeye (from 6.5m - to 9.5m with cabin). Based Southamton. Not sure on costs our legal ownership.

Ribshare

http://www.ribshare.co.uk/ribshare.html
Cobra ribs. About 600/pm. Gets you 60 days pa. Based east coast. Seem to be similar to Lynx above in that you don't own the boat.

Pure Latitude

http://www.purelatitude.com/boats/
Mix of boats (sailing, & ribs). Everyone seems to be able to access all the boats (i.e. not sharing in a single boat). Based in Hamble. The Rib is a ballistic. Annual costs from £3000 per annum depending on usage. That would get you 22 days on the rib. Once again its not shared ownership its shared use.

I am sure there is another one which is genuine shared ownership (i.e. you own a specific share of a particular boat).

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Ian M

Check the stability of any company that you consider, make sure that your investment is safe should they go under!

I an that is a very good point. If you are buying into a genuine shared ownership scheme then I would suggest it would be worth a lawyer checking out the ownership issue. If it is a shared use scheme then they seem to be mostly monthly payments so a lower risk but I would want to see any refundable deposits were properly protected in a client accout. (If you are new to the boating scene - search google for Peter Opal marine for how it can go wrong).

[Poly]

Originally Posted by sarah_muller

If it's £495 per month that's £82.50 per day less fuel.. That's a cheap family day out! Isn't it?

sarah - firstly you missed the vat. That makes it essentially 100/day. Then realistically you won't be able to use it every time you are allocated, e.g. bad weather, that family wedding, partner can't get the same day off work. If the scheme is flexible and so are you I would think you will use 80% of your allocated days. Now we are upto £125/day plus fuel. Now fuel... they are going to provide at marina prices. So thats probably £1.30/L at the moment. A 200 HP engine is going to burn 50 L/hr unless used very conservatively. As you only have limited usage you are going to use the boat for longer days than someone who can pop out for an hour whenever they feel like it. Before you know it you could have spent over £400 on your family day out.

[Ian M]

Originally Posted by Polwart

sarah - firstly you missed the vat. That makes it essentially 100/day. Then realistically you won't be able to use it every time you are allocated, e.g. bad weather, that family wedding, partner can't get the same day off work. If the scheme is flexible and so are you I would think you will use 80% of your allocated days. Now we are upto £125/day plus fuel. Now fuel... they are going to provide at marina prices. So thats probably £1.30/L at the moment. A 200 HP engine is going to burn 50 L/hr unless used very conservatively. As you only have limited usage you are going to use the boat for longer days than someone who can pop out for an hour whenever they feel like it. Before you know it you could have spent over £400 on your family day out.

Careful Polwart, you'll put the poor girl of this fantastic activity before she has even started

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by sarah_muller

their boats are on pontoons so it's as they call it an 'arrive and drive' service. Keeping a RIB on my drive and having to launch it, trailor it etc is one of the put-offs of owning one. Being able to turn up and drive then leave everything else to the experts sounds brilliant.

And thats what I do but still 'own' my own boat. The marina next to me operates a dry berth facility, where you phone them up 40 minutes or thereabouts (depending on whats on) before you want to go out on the boat and when you arrive,the boat is on the water tied up and fuelled ready to go, when you come back you tie up and walk away tell the office you're done, and the lads recover it onto your trailer wash it and store it for you.

I dont fancy the share idea myself, cant stand it if things get shifted where I dont like em, and stuff isnt how I left it. I think Mollers had a good point about relationships with others and how it can change things .. That said it obviously works for some

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Polwart

sarah - firstly you missed the vat. That makes it essentially 100/day. Then realistically you won't be able to use it every time you are allocated, e.g. bad weather, that family wedding, partner can't get the same day off work. If the scheme is flexible and so are you I would think you will use 80% of your allocated days. Now we are upto £125/day plus fuel. Now fuel... they are going to provide at marina prices. So thats probably £1.30/L at the moment. A 200 HP engine is going to burn 50 L/hr unless used very conservatively. As you only have limited usage you are going to use the boat for longer days than someone who can pop out for an hour whenever they feel like it. Before you know it you could have spent over £400 on your family day out.

Are you for share schemes or not? The absolute killer would be the weather. Sods Law will dictate that the weather will not play ball on your allocated days and the Sun will beam on the other guys days. In short, you can't up and go with the weather as most of us do.This would do my head in.
I see no enjoyment in bobbing about in crap weather because it's my w/end. Even if the shared scheme is cheaper, it's still enough money to waste. In my view these schemes are for city dwellers that don't want anything to do with the hassle of boat ownership, can afford to pay their share even if they don't use their allocated time. They possibly plan a holiday and book the boat accordingly.
Sarah, there are plenty of boat yards that will store the boat for you and launch it ready for use. Yeah, it costs, as does boat ownership period. But at least you get maximum use/cost inline with the weather.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Ian M

Careful Polwart, you'll put the poor girl of this fantastic activity before she has even started

Not as much as an unexpected fuel bill would. As you will have gathered I do think the sharing schemes could be useful for the right person - but I don't think they are a cheap entry into ribbing.

Sarah we have no idea what your budget or "expectations" are from a rib, but if cost is important there are cheaper ways for to get you family days on the water... they just involve smaller boats with smaller engines.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Mollers

Are you for share schemes or not?

I am generally in favour of the idea. However I think it is important that Sarah has a realistic expectation of what the cost of a day on the water in one of these boats will be. Fuel is a major cost of ownership of any rib. It is noticeable that the shared scheme "budgets" to compare costs all ignore fuel.

In short, you can't up and go with the weather as most of us do.This would do my head in.

and as I said in my original post that is something that won't suit a lot of people - but for others, who can't just drop everything to go on the boat because its sunny today it will make sod all difference (in fact it would be nice to think - its sunny today shame its not my day for the boat, rather than its sunny today shame I've got to work/be back to pick up the kids from XYZ etc).

I see no enjoyment in bobbing about in crap weather because it's my w/end.

I said that too - if you are the sort of person who is sensitive about the weather probably not for you.

In my view these schemes are for city dwellers that don't want anything to do with the hassle of boat ownership, can afford to pay their share even if they don't use their allocated time.

yes although I think I said distance to coast rather than using your usual "city boy" prejudices! I'm only 20 minutes from my boat - but much prefer to use it in more picturesque waters 2 hours away. If there was a boat share there it would be much better.

Sarah, there are plenty of boat yards that will store the boat for you and launch it ready for use. Yeah, it costs, as does boat ownership period. But at least you get maximum use/cost inline with the weather.

so that will be not very much this year then!