Instructor course

scm · 02 October 2002, 23:24

Hi all,

I am about to do my RYA Instructors course in the next couple of weeks and was wondering if anyone knew of any good resource web sites, ie powerpoint or the like?

Also, as there seems to be so many experienced people on this site, any advise ref the course would be most welcome.

Regards

Stuart

Daniel · 02 October 2002, 23:42

Where you heading and what's your background Stu?

Regards

Daniel

Paul Glatzel · 03 October 2002, 08:40

There is such a site at http://www.colinridley.co.uk. Colin is a RYA Powerboat Trainer who I work with a lot and has created just such a resource for potential Instructors.

As to advice mine would be to keep it as simple as possible. As great as laptops/powerpoint are some good acetates projected onto a drywipe board (all decent schools will have a projector) can be simpler allowing you to 'overwrite' the images on the board to reinforce your point/message. This has the added advantage of not relying on laptops which have a strange habit of going wrong when you least want them to ~ Instructors courses! (If i'm missing the point here and you never intended to use a laptop - sorry!). The other downside being the need to get 6 or so students round a screen (unless you're a very rich school with 42 Plasma screen!). One of the best places to get some images is your pile of MBM, Sportsboat, charts etc which when scanned and printed onto acetate are perfect. The RYA also do a presentation CD for shorebased Instructors which is good albeit a bit unwieldy

Another site which is useful (but difficult to utilise in a classroom) is the Interactive Training section of the RNLI site (http://www.rnli.org.uk/training/launch.asp) which is outstanding .

My final observation would be to relax and enjoy it and get your students involved in the discusions as much as possible (rather than just presenting). This is one of the ways real ribbing/powerboating experience plays a key part as an Instructor able to bring real experiences into a training session will present a far better course.

If you would like to have a chat send me an email with a number and I will call you

Paul
PowerboatTraining UK, Poole

PS (& apologies for doing this here): We have an Instructors course starting tomorrow (4th/5th/6th Oct) and one of the 6 potential Instructors has had to drop out ~ anyone out there ready for the course at short notice and want to do it ~ call 07973 179869 if interested.

Jelly · 03 October 2002, 10:39

Hi Stuart
Power point presentations can be great as can OHP's, though need to watch out for doing too many as 'death by OHP' can occur after the 15 hudredth slide

.
Best resource I found is a few slide slides as the main point and 'Chalk & talk' black board or white board with differnt colours, you don't have to be an expert artist to reinforce the points / answer questions.
As Paul said relax enjoy the course, make sure your L2 skills are up to scratch so you can talk about what you are doing, not worrying if you are doing it correctly.
Have Fun
Jelly

benjamin · 03 October 2002, 18:25

I have just followed your link to the the RNLI web site, which is an excellent resource - I shall now spend even less time in the office working, and even more time reading posts on rib.net and boning up on COLREGS with the RNLI !

scm · 03 October 2002, 19:53

Many thanks for the reply's. Just what i needed.

Paul, i will drop you an e-mail later, thanks for the offer of a chat.

Daniel,

Not sure what you mean by where i'm heading, just after some advise with regard to the course and where to get any resources of the web.
My background is Millatary helicopter pilot, Yachtmaster Offshore (Com), SI dinghy and level 4 Powerboat.

Regards
Stuart

Daniel · 03 October 2002, 20:13

I meant where are you taking the PBI course stu!

Sounds like you should have no real problems with the YM, Advanced PB and SI behind you.

I did my PBI 18 months ago with no problems at all. I have Dinghy Inst., and Day Skipper but have not done the PB advanced course (yet!).

I think you'll be fine if you know the theroy (read up on a few books) and have had some recent time in a selection of boats (the course would be no time to dust off cobwebs!).

In reality not all teaching establishments put the instructors on 'real' courses as the RYA course notes would suggest, my course was six potential instructors practising teaching each other, in fact one of the best parts of the course was learning bits off each other.

Although i think this was good it means the first 'real' course you teach is a little daunting - particulary so when you 'jump in at the deap end' as the only PBI at your club and start organising courses!

I'll be interested to hear which way you're course is run - with or without real paying pupils?

Cheers

Daniel

wavelength · 03 October 2002, 20:28

as trainer / assessor for instructor courses the one thing that really ******* me off are presentations where someone is trying to impress with powerpoint presentations with bits that flash in from various angles and fade in from here and out to there - and at the end of it they have told me nothing 'cept how good they are with a lap top and a projector. Having taught powerboating and sub aqua courses all round the country and used all the toys I have gone back to basics and use a flip chart for everything. The one thing my sub aqua inst course taught me was be prepared! If you use a flip chart take a flip chart holder in case theirs does not fit your chart (it happens!). If you are using your own projector take a spare bulb and an extension lead cos the plughole is always just that bit too far away. If you are using powerpoint have your presentation copied on two disks in case you lose one or it just won't work. Check your candidates are properly kitted up (lifejackets on properly etc), you are aware of any medical conditions, agree signals between the boats and define your working area. Then enjoy yourself! Piece of cake really!

scm · 05 October 2002, 20:40

Daniel,

Thanks, doing the course on Southampton water/solent. There won't be any paying pupils on the course as we are all mil. That said we will be on the course for five days and i'm sure there will be the normal role play etc.

Dave,
I agree, you can go overboard with powerpoint but that coupled with the whiteboard can be a good thing. (you should see my drawing!!) I will stick to Keep it Simple stupid.

Thanks for the advise.

Regards
Stuart

Powerboat · 08 October 2002, 20:29

Hi Stuart, The other Stuart on the list here and by coincidence also a Military guy !

As a Powerboat Trainer who runs such courses regularly , my advice is also to keep it simple and just be your self !

The RYA do have an excellent little CD ROM based around the YM Shore course which is great for building either Powerpoint presentations and also for producing very sexy and colourful OHP slides .

Give me a buzz or an email at any time !

Contact details on www.powerboat.org,

Best wishes !

Stuart

scm · 27 October 2002, 19:52

Hi All,
Just thought I would let you know how the course went.

It was five days long and we were all teaching each other, this had the benefit of getting a great deal from the others on the course. The breakdown was:
Day 1: Classroom and boat prep. This was a long day but meant that we got a lot of the classroom stuff out of the way.
Day2: Out in the Solent in a F9 gusting F10. Got as far as the Hamble for our lessons. It was most interesting teaching bumps and grinds in that weather !!! This day was based on a Level 1 course, lessons in the eve.
Day 3: Weather better! Based on a level 2 course, again on the water with more lessons in the eve
Day 4: Based on safety boat course today. Had all the bits of kit on the water, i.e. Cat, dinghy etc. More eve lessons.
Day 5: Tidy up.

In all a very good course with a lot to cram in.

A couple of thoughts from the course:

Why can someone do a level 2 course and then go and become an Instr at that level?

Why is there not a Senior Instr post within the powerboat scheme?

I am a firm believer that to Instr you should be of a level above the one you are teaching. It seems to me that the powerboat scheme could do with a bit of a shack up. I do not mean make it more difficult but perhaps make it a bit more structured.

Many thanks to those that took the time to reply to my first e-mail.

Regards
Stuart

wavelength · 27 October 2002, 21:24

powerboat scheme is under review as part of rya ongoing programme. I share you concerns over newly qualified level 2 taking instructor course and i have refused to take people onto instructor courses cos i know they have not the background or experience but then find they have gone somewhere else not so particular. One particular girlie (well midddle age lady) springs to mind. A dangerous nightmare on the water-I refused to give her a coastal endorsement to a level2 after she had done the course, then found a friend had refused her a rescue boat ticket on one of his courses. Phoned me a couple of years ago and asked if she could work for us as she had now got her instructor's ticket

I politely declined! Requirements for five years logged experience are not really enforceable, they do not have to be after the level 2 and anyone can write down imaginary trips in a book. Having said that I have people come for level 2 who have loads of experience and would make good instructors straight away. Guy last week was approaching early retirement from the merchant navy, he had gone out in small boats since he was a baby with his dad who had been a lifeboat cox'n for 28 years. No reason why he should not go straight onto instructing if he so wished.

scm · 27 October 2002, 21:49

Dave,
I agree. Anyone can use a sharp pencil in there logbook and be the best thing since sliced bread. One of the things I have noticed throughout the years in various RYA disciplines is the question: what ticket have you got followed by where from?

This will always be the case and I think that you can very quickly see if anybody has done what they say they have. With your guy who had done 28 years in the merchant Navy, I agree he would make an excellent Instr and that I feel that is the beauty of the RYA scheme in that anyone can do a direct assessment at any level.
However, to become a principal of a RYA school what qualification must you have in the powerboat scheme? To become a principal in the other disciplines you must be at least a SI or equivalent. I.e. above the normal Instr level. This I feel should be the case in the powerboat scheme.
Regards
Stuart

wavelength · 27 October 2002, 23:46

No its scary- powerboat level 2, pass an instructor course and then they can be principal - and his learning process grinds almost to a halt and all those mistaken ideas that he is sure are right are continued on and on cos he never works under or with other instructors. Nobody does it the same as any one else and working a number years with a variety of instructors with different teaching techniques is the way to produce a top class instructor as he picks up all the good bits and discards the rest. Perhap then he should be an SI
Dave M

Powerboat · 27 October 2002, 23:56

Hi folks ,

I find that this whole subject has come up for discussion quite timely and find myself in strong agreement with many of the comments expressed by Wavelength !

I am the National Powerboat Trainer in Ireland with the Irish Sailing Association. I am also Principal of Lough Ree Power Boat School which I feel quite safe in saying is the leading Motor Boat and Powerboat training School in Ireland. In my "real life" I am in charge of the Army Boat Squad over here.

We ( The Irish sailing Association - ISA ) are currently reviewing the National Powerboat Scheme here in Ireland.

By coincidence I have just arrived home tonight after running a 4 day PB Instuctor course.

As Principal of Lough Ree Power Boat School , I personally interview all instructor course candidates . As a rough guide we would expect candidates from a professional background ( Army, Police or RNLI etc..) to have as a minimum, in excess of two or three years of active service before joining a PBI course and we would expect a leisure user to have in excess of 5 years of experience. Many of our candidates fall some where in between.; and of course there are always exceptions to every rule.

I would count relevant boating experience ahead of years of holding a Level 2. MY own Chief Instructor , Phil Knowd puts it nicely when he advises L2 candidates about apres course filling of Log Books being important when convincing Stuart to accept you onto an Instructor course..........

"After an interview we will know whether you have enough experience or not no matter what is written in your Log Book !"

We are also very wary of Instructors who have trained in the couple of well known " Pay your money - Get your Instructor Qualification " Schools in the UK. Good people have come through these Schools ... but we definitely take a third look when we hear certain UK School names mentioned on an Instructors CV.

I agree about having a "Grade " or status of Senior Powerboat Instructor . This would be some one who is both a Safety Boat and Advanced Instructor. We are currently looking at this within the ISA. This would also streamline Instructor-Trainer candidates.

I made the point on the PBI course today that the School Principal as opposed to the Chief Instructor need not be an Instructor. Principal of an RTE is a titular ( and legally responsible ) position which can be occupied by a business person who owns the company or a club commodore. Often , as in my case, the Principal is both an Instructor and a business person / club commodore. I see nothing wrong with this . The chairman of an engineering firm is not necessarily a qualified engineer!

Best wishes ,

Stuart McNamara
www.powerboat.org

scm · 28 October 2002, 19:12

One other little gem is that you only have to 16yrs old to do your PB Intr's course!!!!

Regards
Stuart

Powerboat · 28 October 2002, 19:48

Here in Ireland, that would be an impossibility.

No one under the age of 16 is allowed by law to be in charge of or control of ( even under supervision) a craft which is capable of a speed of 17 knots or over.

Therefore the earliest that one could do ones L2 is 16 and therefore the youngest PBI candidate we would ever see ( as an extreme case) would be a 19 year old Professional user ( Army Police etc.) and even that would be extremely unlikely.

In general , the youngest candidates for a PBI course that we would ever see here in Ireland would be 25 +.

Best wishes ,

Stuart
www.powerboat.org

Alan · 28 October 2002, 20:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Powerboat
Here in Ireland, that would be an impossibility.

No one under the age of 16 is allowed by law to be in charge of or control of ( even under supervision) a craft which is capable of a speed of 17 knots or over.

Stuart
www.powerboat.org

Stuart, Does that mean that literally you can't drive a RIB in Eire unless you are over 16?? So if you are a kid, you can't drive Dads RIB, even supervised? Or to put it another way if you are a parent you cant teach your kids to drive a RIB safely until they are 16? What utter madness. How many RESPONSIBLE teenagers are there in the ribbing fraternity? Loads I'd say. (HMS's son driving a RIB round Britain for one. )

I learnt much of my early high speed (ish) type boating at the age of 14-16 in Dell Quay Dory's at the local sailing club. I shudder to think that I wouldn't be able to do the same for my kids (when I have 'em

)

Hope this isn't something that comes to UK eventually!

Yours shocked, Alan

Keith Hart · 28 October 2002, 20:16

Quote:

Hope this isn't something that comes to UK eventually!

Hmmmmmmmmm......

Remember a thread about COMPULSORY training?

Keith (watch out there's a law about) Hart

Powerboat · 28 October 2002, 20:31

Hi Alan ,

I'm afraid you are right and I totally agree that it is crazy !

Blame our good old forward thinking Dept of the Marine !

These rules were introduced last year. Some of the rules were quite sensible . Life jackets must now be worn at all times by under 16s on fast craft and must be carried for all over 16 year olds.

Under 16s are not allowed to operate ( even under supervision) a fast water craft.

Heretofore , our policy in the ISA was that we would train under 16s with their parents permission to Level 2 standard. Their L2 cert would be endorsed until they were 16 . ( ie it was not a Certificate of Competency) This was a very sensible arrangement which led to kids getting good training while still maintaing a voluntary and well supported control system.

When the new legislation was being proposed , we in the ISA looked for a derogation for Schools on the basis that kids are out there driving anyway and at least if they could be trained to L2 standard that they would be safer. Our submissions to the DOM were very detailed , reasoned and were of course largely ignored !

The Departments response was that there was no need to train under 16s as they were not allowed by the new law to drive and therfore would not need training!

Of course there are practically no resources in place to enforce the new laws . So now we have a very dangerous situation over here where Kids are driving fast craft Who is going to stop them !) and responsible schools such as ours are forbidden by law from providing them with training.

It is now likely that there will be a mandatory driving licence for fast craft here in Ireland from next year.

I could go on and on and on about how little the DOM know over here about fast craft operations !

AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH !!!!!!

Yours in frustration !

Stuart
www.powerboat.ie