IRPCS should have gone to specsavers!

[wavelength]

Looks like someone asleep at the wheel here, if in fact he is near the wheel at all. Don't ever rely on the other guy to do the right thing!
If its been posted before well c'est la vie----first time I've seen it.

Fishing Vessel hits large Sailing Vessel in Good Visibility 20/8/2010 - YouTube

[mick]

Wow they were brave to keep filming

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by wavelength

Looks like someone asleep at the wheel here, if in fact he is near the wheel at all. Don't ever rely on the other guy to do the right thing!

He was probably too busy checking his charts & chronometer

[tony t]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

He was probably too busy checking his charts & chronometer

What you mean he has no iPhone

[lakelandterrier]

But the the sailing vessel seemed to blindly stay on her course and take no avoiding action.
Was the fsihing boat trawling? if so I'd keep clear as a matter of course

[tonto]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

He was probably too busy checking his charts & chronometer

Nahhhh. His chartplotter/GPS didnt show the sailing boat so it didnt exist! He was looking at the idiot machine and not out the window!

However, the fishing boat was not fishing at that speed, and he didnt have the fishing shapes up. (that I could see) Still the IIRPCS require that the sailing vessel needed to take action when it became apparent the other vessel was not going to.

Still no excuse! on both parts.

[willk]

"I say! Don't you realise that we're SAILING!"

Tonto is right of course - while the fishing boat was obviously in the wrong, it was fairly clear that, like Missus T, it wasn't for turning. The skipper of the SV was tooting like a good one for long enough and most likely could have done something to avoid the collision - I didn't SEE much evidence of that. Sail or no, who would "insist" a trawler stop trawling while they pootle in front of it? If the sailing skipper had been keeping a good watch, it would have been fairly clear that a collision was a possibility. If the VHF didn't get the trawler's attention then it was time to come up with Plan B - and I wouldn't call tooting a Plan B

Let's face it, this "accident" happened at 8 knots - there would have been time to consider the options.

[ALANT]

Originally Posted by mick

Wow they were brave to keep filming

Or STUPID

Best bit it looks like a sail training vessel

[wavelength]

who would "insist" a trawler stop trawling while they pootle in front of it?

he wasnt fishing and wasnt showing fishing daymark (which is remarkable in itself as our locals still have them up when the ship is outa the water for painting!) and the court findings on the press release confirm that. B**** ghost ship going home on auto pilot wi nobody at the helm, and there's a lot of them about
Yes skipper of sailing vessel has some blame in that he should have used common sense and good seamanship to avoid a collision with a pillock but be fair he was the obvious "stand on" (with caution) vessel.

[Will75]

The SV was REQUIRED to STAND ON and maintain course and speed until such time as it was obvious that a collision was unavoidable. (There is some interesting Admiralty court rulings in Cockroft et al on the actual timings for this). When this time came he would have had only one option, to make a bold alteration to starboard. I am not a WAFI so this is out of my area, but I suspect a bold alteration of course on a SV of that size would not be as straightforward as it sounds.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Will75

The SV was REQUIRED to STAND ON and maintain course and speed until such time as it was obvious that a collision was unavoidable.

I guess he was stuffed so

[C-NUMB]

Originally Posted by Will75

The SV was REQUIRED to STAND ON and maintain course and speed until such time as it was obvious that a collision was unavoidable. (There is some interesting Admiralty court rulings in Cockroft et al on the actual timings for this). When this time came he would have had only one option, to make a bold alteration to starboard. I am not a WAFI so this is out of my area, but I suspect a bold alteration of course on a SV of that size would not be as straightforward as it sounds.

Don't know the sail configuration on the SV but looks like a starboard turn would have been against the wind, can be tricky to do fast on this size vessel. The trawler crashed just about the stern, in this scenario very difficult for the WAFI to do much about it.

The trawler master waked up just before impact(or runs to the bridge from the cargo hold...), looks like he makes full astern and turns to starboard, might be that it would have turned steeper without that reversing maneuver...not hitting the SV.

[John Kennett]

More details here:

http://www.fishnewseu.com/latest-new...ng-vessel.html

[Will75]

.......and if the SV had altered to starboard at the last minute then he would have presented a stern aspect to the FV. I suspect this would have been much worse as the FV would have simply ploughed into and over the SV. As it was there was a glancing blow to the port quarter and no damage below the weather deck - at least it appears that way. Most of time I would take the anti-WAFI viewpoint but in this case he did exactly the right thing.

[Mollers]

Beamer not keeping watch-End of.

[Rogue Wave]

at least the FV cleared a load of crap from his exhaust valves probably in more ways than one

[martini]

Looks like the sailing vessel might have had to tack to make any kind of stbd turn, on a boat like that it could take anything up to 20-30 mins to do so, inc mustering the off watch crew, organising manning of all stations, climbing yard arms etc.

OOW on the FV was fast asleep or taking a dump, one of the two

[Poly]

Originally Posted by willk

If the sailing skipper had been keeping a good watch, it would have been fairly clear that a collision was a possibility. If the VHF didn't get the trawler's attention then it was time to come up with Plan B - and I wouldn't call tooting a Plan B

Let's face it, this "accident" happened at 8 knots - there would have been time to consider the options.

But VHF is not supposed to be the solution is this situation - whereas sound signal can be (although they seemed like long blasts not short ones to me).

Originally Posted by martini

Looks like the sailing vessel might have had to tack to make any kind of stbd turn, on a boat like that it could take anything up to 20-30 mins to do so, inc mustering the off watch crew, organising manning of all stations, climbing yard arms etc.

OOW on the FV was fast asleep or taking a dump, one of the two

Aye, but are there other option like taking off all (or some) way, or presumably the SV has engines - so running them (whether forwards or in reverse.

[willk]

Poly - I hopped into this thread taking a purely practical approach to the collision, I suppose thinking about how I would have handled it (theoretically)

Patently, I wasn't there, so I can't be and wouldn't want to be the Judge and Jury. However, at the back of my mind is the notion that the SV skipper/helm had a beady on the FV for a bit before the tooting started. Sound signals are fine if someone is awake to hear them. I wonder was he simply alerting his own crew to the developing crisis? This period is what interests me most. Use of the VHF (and binoculars to get an ID) in a developing collision situation is entirely reasonable, not because you need to establish right of way, but simply to ascertain as early as possible if the FV had seen the SV and what his intentions were. Given the terrible reputation FVs have, if I heard nothing back, I'd assume the worse and consider taking action - not wait until the collision was unavoidable as suggested somewhere. That time was where the helm had a few minutes (and it SHOULD have been minutes) to activate some sort of crew response and get ready to change course.

I think it occurred because the helm on the FV was asleep or away from his post and because the stand on vessel were WAFIs. Nothing in COLREGs insists you stand on to the point of collision, quite the opposite in fact.

[willk]

I'd like to thank Wavelength for this thread, BTW. Yesterday was VERY slow on here and this one will run until 0100 tomorrow and beyond. I expect a daughter thread in the Bilges shortly, when someone's pipe ash gets ejected vertically and burns a hole in their peajacket