Is this a scam from Denmark?

skyblues · 04 June 2009, 22:25

A man phones me in response to my advert on Boats & Outboards. says he is from Denmark and buys boats in UK ships them to Denmark and sells on making 10 to 15% mark up. He says that money will be transferred to my bank account before boat is released. I have now had an offer from him via e mail having sent him lots of detailed pictures. Has anyone else been approached like this? And what is the safest way to proceed?

Nos4r2 · 04 June 2009, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyblues

A man phones me in response to my advert on Boats & Outboards. says he is from Denmark and buys boats in UK ships them to Denmark and sells on making 10 to 15% mark up. He says that money will be transferred to my bank account before boat is released. I have now had an offer from him via e mail having sent him lots of detailed pictures. Has anyone else been approached like this? And what is the safest way to proceed?

Sounds dodgy to me. It's not a long trip to make to view boats in person.

Mick Balch · 04 June 2009, 23:06

There are a lot of scammers around but a simple test is as follows.

If your buyer is really genuine suggest that he pays for your boat via your solicitor. If its genuine there should be no issues. If its a scam they will be off like a shot.

It might cost you a small fee but if its genuine at least you wont lose the opportunity of selling the boat.

skyblues · 04 June 2009, 23:17

thanks. I have replied to him asking for details of exactly how he proposes paying. I have been reading about escrow as a way of receiving payment. Has anyone used this kind of service?

bazza · 04 June 2009, 23:31

Get him to transfer the money directly into your bank account and then remove the money before releasing the boat.

All you have to give him is the account no. and sort code. Nothing that anyone cannot get when you give them a cheque.

codprawn · 04 June 2009, 23:31

Don't use escrow - that's how many of the scammers work. Make sure the funds are cleared fully into your account and check with your bank to make sure they can't be clawed back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogus_escrow

If it's him who has suggest Escrow run a mile!!!

chewy · 05 June 2009, 06:29

I sold a 25ft lifeboat to a lad in Holland.
He placed a £100 deposit on it and arranged the deliery.
I sailed it to Whitby where the lad had arranged for it to be picked up. The lad who picked it up had the remainder of the cash.

If he is serious they shouldn't be any problem with him coming across to view the boat?

Pablo · 05 June 2009, 08:30

I was thinking of doing exactly the same thing from France. I don't see any reason for it to be a scam.

Poly · 05 June 2009, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Don't use escrow - that's how many of the scammers work. Make sure the funds are cleared fully into your account and check with your bank to make sure they can't be clawed back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogus_escrow

If it's him who has suggest Escrow run a mile!!!

No don't use THEIR escrow - escrow itself is not fundamentally flawed - it relies on the principle of a TRUSTED third party. If you use an Untrusted 3rd party - thats dumb! The principle of using your lawyers account is similar - although he won't normally control release of the goods.

If this guy if he is legit is presumably operating as a business so will be able to provide information which may help with his credibility: company name, phone number (how is it answered if you dial anonymously), company registration number, VAT number, previous satisfied customers you can talk to, a written contract / bill of sale. None of that is particularly hard to fake but it will at least mean it is a professional scam!

Andy Gee · 05 June 2009, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazza

Get him to transfer the money directly into your bank account and then remove the money before releasing the boat.

All you have to give him is the account no. and sort code. Nothing that anyone cannot get when you give them a cheque.

Sometimes that isnt failsafe. Best way would be as suggested to use a Solicitor or have do a direct BACS/Bank to bank transfer and have your bank confirm that the funds are cleared.
Done this many times with buyers from Russia, Estonia etc and have never had a problem- If your man has an issue with this walk away

.
HTH
Andy

bazza · 05 June 2009, 16:08

Is that not what I said?

The bank wont let you withdraw the money if the funds haven't cleared.

Andy Gee · 06 June 2009, 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by bazza

Is that not what I said?

The bank wont let you withdraw the money if the funds haven't cleared.

They will tell you that the funds are in your account on certain types of transfer (cant remember which ones) only to remove them a few days later when they actually bounce- believe me I have had this happen abeit for only a small transaction.
Andy

neilda · 06 June 2009, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Gee

They will tell you that the funds are in your account on certain types of transfer (cant remember which ones) only to remove them a few days later when they actually bounce- believe me I have had this happen albeit for only a small transaction.
Andy

Yes I've heard this too - and that there are scammers practised in exploiting the window between you 'seeing' the new funds in your account and then those funds not clearing.

If you have a moderately chunky bank account, you would/could draw on this and then get stung when the funds don't fully clear.

bazza · 06 June 2009, 13:10

Okay I see where you are coming from but what I did was got him to transfer the money into an account I don't normally use and then I withdrew all the funds before sending the item.
Sorry for not being clearer.

skyblues · 07 June 2009, 13:37

Thanks for all the advice. He wanted to pay by bankers draft when the delivery guy collected the boat. I have insisted on cleared funds in my bank by transfer which he has agreed to. All being well I should have made my sale fairly easily by next week - but I am still being cautious!

chewy · 08 June 2009, 10:43

If he pays by bankers draft or cheque and they are fraudulent the funds WILL clear into your account, your boat will go with him. A few days after the moneys cleared the person who's bank the money actually come out of will report it then the money will disappear out of your account despite it been cleared.
Result is no money and no boat.
Ideally I would want the money in my account for at least a couple of weeks before it goes anywhere.
Can you not sell it to him through a broker?

Doug Stormforce · 08 June 2009, 12:31

I sold a £50K yacht earlier this year to a guy in Sweden. He paid £5 deposit to hold the boat on the bais it was as decsribed.

He then came over for viewing and survey (I think he did 3 yachts while he was here).

Sale completed a week or 2 later.

No reason why he can not organise for GBP paid dierctly into your bank.

Christopher · 08 June 2009, 13:51

Had a call from Denmark last week and the gent (hope he turns out to be one) is coming to view my Nimbus 280 at Dartmouth tomorrow or Wednesday which I advertised on Boats and Outboards three weeks ago. Thanks to all for their input and for the very useful warnings on payment methods.

Kernow Buoy · 08 June 2009, 14:04

I think what with the strength of the pound against the euro we're going to see a lot more of this, had a guy from Belgium call me when I was selling my boat, she was already sold but directed him to the forum for help/advise re makes and models etc.

codprawn · 08 June 2009, 14:05

In fairness there aren't many scammers of Danish extraction - they usually come from warmer climes!!!