I've found Codders in his new RIB... :p - Page 2

eupa · 27 October 2005, 08:22

Prosport 8.8m rib with Suzuki DT 225 efi(last of them) fitted to a 10" setback transom jack. 15hp Suzuki aux.

Codders - what will this weigh in when fully furbished?? I reckon about 1800 kgs+.
I would have gone for twins - 2*140 suks- you will probbaly find that pushing a near 9 meter rib against a force 5/7 with a 225 is not enough?? what prop will you be using??

Jonathan

Cookee · 27 October 2005, 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

I have yet to see the CMC in the flesh but haven't really seen any bad reports on them!!!

Here's one - they break easily on a RIB with an XR2 on in race conditions and only last about 1 - 2 hours!

codprawn · 27 October 2005, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by eupa

Prosport 8.8m rib with Suzuki DT 225 efi(last of them) fitted to a 10" setback transom jack. 15hp Suzuki aux.

Codders - what will this weigh in when fully furbished?? I reckon about 1800 kgs+.
I would have gone for twins - 2*140 suks- you will probbaly find that pushing a near 9 meter rib against a force 5/7 with a 225 is not enough?? what prop will you be using??

Jonathan

Cost was one reason - 2x 250 ETECs would have been nice!!!

Having said that from what I can gather twins don't give that much extra grunt cos they are too close together!!!

Another problem often overlooked is all that extra weight hanging off the transom - seems to me RIBs tend to pitchpole more than they capsize!!!

I have a 4 blade stainless prop at the moment - ordered a 21" but they sent a 19" so will try that first - may well have 2 different props anyway - one for lightly loaded - one for full load.

codprawn · 27 October 2005, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookee

Here's one - they break easily on a RIB with an XR2 on in race conditions and only last about 1 - 2 hours!

Was that from personal experience???

I have looked hard on the net but can't find any complaints - maybe the Yanks just don't use them as hard???

Where did it break and which jackplate was it???

Dirk Diggler · 27 October 2005, 13:54

Now you've gone down the CMC route, I hope you specified the S/S motor rails or you probably won't make it back from the Channel Islands if it's at all lumpy.

The weakest point tends to be the fixings in the side working loose or snapping, although the ram mount is a weak area. I've always replaced the side (slider) bolts with longer ones to enable me to fit a large heavy washer and a nut wire locked in place, don't like the way they rely on a bolt fixing tapped into the bracket.

Most of the people who use them in the States are running very high performance but quite small craft, nearly always on a lake or river, but rarely in offshore conditions. Bass boats as shown being a typical application. The manual plate is quite often used to establish the optimum engine height, and then it's either welded together, or replaced with a custom box!

And don't come blubbing back to the forum when your motor falls off, coz it will.

Might be a good idea to invest in good quality shift and throttle cables, as I've seen numerous motors hanging from them after the lifter failed, don't go buying no cheap ones!!!!!!!

Alan · 27 October 2005, 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Another problem often overlooked is all that extra weight hanging off the transom - seems to me RIBs tend to pitchpole more than they capsize!!!

Eh? I've NEVER heard of a RIB pitchpoling (assume you mean going end over end). Oh no, I lie, there was the case of the the Whitstable (I think it was Whitstable) Atlantic 21 going end over end in surf. Perhaps you could give the RNLI the benefit of you expertise in this area? Anyway, never heard of a leisure rib pitchpoling. And surely by setting the engine back you are excacerbating any weight distribution problem?

eupa · 27 October 2005, 14:33

Another problem often overlooked is all that extra weight hanging off the transom - seems to me RIBs tend to pitchpole more than they capsize!!!

That's why on a near 9 meter rib you will NEED trim tabs. Would suggest a 23" prop for a 225. What speed are you hoping to ger?

Jonathan

codprawn · 27 October 2005, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

Eh? I've NEVER heard of a RIB pitchpoling (assume you mean going end over end). Oh no, I lie, there was the case of the the Whitstable (I think it was Whitstable) Atlantic 21 going end over end in surf. Perhaps you could give the RNLI the benefit of you expertise in this area? Anyway, never heard of a leisure rib pitchpoling. And surely by setting the engine back you are excacerbating any weight distribution problem?

Yes setting the engine back does make it worse but I needed more room in the boat - to compensate I asked for the console to be moved forward a bit. Hopefully my engine with setback won't be as bad as twins without it!!!

You may never have heard of a leisure RIB pitchpoling but it must happen to some people - I have watched loads of videos of RIBs in rough conditions and they all nearly all seem to lan very much stern first. Especially the twin engined ones!!!

Not leisure but this video proves the point - watch at the very start!!!

http://www.boomeranger.fi/images/ind...conditions.mpg

Great video for those who have never seen it before!!!

codprawn · 27 October 2005, 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by eupa

Another problem often overlooked is all that extra weight hanging off the transom - seems to me RIBs tend to pitchpole more than they capsize!!!

That's why on a near 9 meter rib you will NEED trim tabs. Would suggest a 23" prop for a 225. What speed are you hoping to ger?

Jonathan

Yes getting the QL ones discussed on here a while ago....

Alan · 27 October 2005, 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

You may never have heard of a leisure RIB pitchpoling but it must happen to some people - I have watched loads of videos of RIBs in rough conditions and they all nearly all seem to lan very much stern first. Especially the twin engined ones!!!

Ah, silly me, I'm confusing experience in yer know actual ribbing with received wisdom from watching video's.

codprawn · 27 October 2005, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

Ah, silly me, I'm confusing experience in yer know actual ribbing with received wisdom from watching video's.

Not a football ref are you? They tend to favour their experience over video footage as well.........

Cookee · 27 October 2005, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Was that from personal experience???

I have looked hard on the net but can't find any complaints - maybe the Yanks just don't use them as hard???

Where did it break and which jackplate was it???

It was a CMC, but we've broken a couple of different types of "bolt in a slot" types of lifter - just don't stand up to the punishment racing gives it - they last 1 or 2 races at best - listen to Dirk - he knows what he's talking about and coming from a leisure perspective as well.

As for the pitchpoling - rubbish - that video is of a badly balanced boat running in big swells - for a start trim tabs would help with that, or a bow tank would also make it better balanced.

I'm sure I have mentioned quite a bit about lifters in the past both here and on Boatmad (I see you've joined there as well) - do a search and you'll see my comments.

codprawn · 28 October 2005, 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cookee

It was a CMC, but we've broken a couple of different types of "bolt in a slot" types of lifter - just don't stand up to the punishment racing gives it - they last 1 or 2 races at best - listen to Dirk - he knows what he's talking about and coming from a leisure perspective as well.

As for the pitchpoling - rubbish - that video is of a badly balanced boat running in big swells - for a start trim tabs would help with that, or a bow tank would also make it better balanced.

I'm sure I have mentioned quite a bit about lifters in the past both here and on Boatmad (I see you've joined there as well) - do a search and you'll see my comments.

What is rubbish about what I have said about pitchpoling? Basically what I was saying is that a lot of RIBs are too tail heavy!!! Obviously racing ones aren't and neither is your boat - surely that would have something to do with the fact that you have considered the balance of the boat when you designed it?

As you say a bow ballast tank will make all the difference!!!

John Kennett · 28 October 2005, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

What is rubbish about what I have said about pitchpoling? Basically what I was saying is that a lot of RIBs are too tail heavy!!!

What you said was "seems to me RIBs tend to pitchpole more than they capsize!!!", which is not the same as saying they are just too tail heavy (and could reasonably be described as rubbish).

Plenty of badly balanced RIBs land transom-down after getting a bit of air, however pitchpoling (turning over, end over end) is very rare.

John

Jonny Fuller · 28 October 2005, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Plenty of badly balanced RIBs land transom-down after getting a bit of air, however pitchpoling (turning over, end over end) is very rare.

John

Is going over backwards (blowover) considered a 'pitchpole'? I would have thought pitchpoling is more a case of going in nose first and the arse rising and overtaking the front in a natural 'turning wheel' movement.

??

wotd'ya reckon ya torl ungreatful fing?

Jimbo · 28 October 2005, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller

Is going over backwards (blowover) considered a 'pitchpole'? I would have thought pitchpoling is more a case of going in nose first and the arse rising and overtaking the front in a natural 'turning wheel' movement.

??

wotd'ya reckon ya torl ungreatful fing?

In dinghy sailing that's what we'd call a pitchpole, most common in catamarans, and asymetric spinnaker boats going through waves. There's a great photo somewhere of the Silk Cut Yacht pitchpoling at cowes week.

I've only ever heard of going over backwards being called a blowover - that's what hapeened to the whitstable lifeboat someone mentioned previously.

ADS · 28 October 2005, 11:31

Heres a pitch pole:

http://www.mini12.ca/mini12/public_h.../pitchpole.jpg

not a rib im afraid. I believe the Whitstable lifeboat was a blow over, or 'flipped'.

Alex

Jono · 28 October 2005, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADS

Heres a pitch pole:

..and I know the correct procedure for the crew to adopt in this situation......

....crap yerself.....

ADS · 28 October 2005, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

..and I know the correct procedure for the crew to adopt in this situation......

....crap yerself.....

I feel most sorry for the crew member who is down below using the heads

Jonny Fuller · 28 October 2005, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

..and I know the correct procedure for the crew to adopt in this situation......

....crap yerself.....

It's worse at speed!!

http://media.boatmad.com/gallery/v/m...stuff.wmv.html

Although this starts as a stuff, the boat breaks in the middle, and folds up.