Jockey seats and Cookee

[two stroke mick]

I was reviewing the Padstow accedent thread and I noted this post by Cookee on the 7th may 2013

"I have never been a big fan of jockey seats and whilst they have their place in smaller rescue boats capable of slow planing speeds I think that the higher the speed the more of a danger they can potentially cause, especially in inexperienced hands."

I thought that Jockey seats were the best type of seats to have in a rib. Now I am not doubting Cookee, as he knows a lot more than me about boats in general. However the post of the 7th may 2013 has me puzzeled. What type of seats is he thinking about which are better for ribs and why are jockey seats not as good as I thought they were?

Some enlightment on this subject please

TSM

[mister p]

No help but George Michael fell out of his car at 70mph on the M1 yesterday.
What is safe?

[rocknrolla]

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

I was reviewing the Padstow accedent thread and I noted this post by Cookee on the 7th may 2013

"I have never been a big fan of jockey seats and whilst they have their place in smaller rescue boats capable of slow planing speeds I think that the higher the speed the more of a danger they can potentially cause, especially in inexperienced hands."

I thought that Jockey seats were the best type of seats to have in a rib. Now I am not doubting Cookee, as he knows a lot more than me about boats in general. However the post of the 7th may 2013 has me puzzeled. What type of seats is he thinking about which are better for ribs and why are jockey seats not as good as I thought they were?

Some enlightment on this subject please

TSM

It does not make a blind bit of difference what seat u are in Looey, if u hook up wrong u are out unless u have a belt or harness on.When Cookee is going fast he just gets thrown around the cab,unless he has a belt or harness on

[wiLlfish]

Originally Posted by rocknrolla

When Cookee is going fast he just gets thrown around the cab

yew mus bee jowkin yew chayn mekkin munky

dAt cukEe iz too fkin tite too paiy forr taksis

[kerny]

Originally Posted by mister p

No help but George Michael fell out of his car at 70mph on the M1 yesterday.
What is safe?

That was a bit careless whisper

[Nos4r2]

I can see where Cookee's coming from-look at the really fast boats and the race boats. Nobody is standing up holding onto handholds or sitting astride jockey seats. They're sat far lower in bucket seats that restrict the side to side movement.

Even then they don't always stay in the boat.

It's one of the reasons I never changed the console on my Searider. I quite like being low down with my feet in footstraps so I can pull myself downwards.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

I was reviewing the Padstow accedent thread and I noted this post by Cookee on the 7th may 2013

"I have never been a big fan of jockey seats and whilst they have their place in smaller rescue boats capable of slow planing speeds I think that the higher the speed the more of a danger they can potentially cause, especially in inexperienced hands."

I thought that Jockey seats were the best type of seats to have in a rib. Now I am not doubting Cookee, as he knows a lot more than me about boats in general. However the post of the 7th may 2013 has me puzzeled. What type of seats is he thinking about which are better for ribs and why are jockey seats not as good as I thought they were?

Some enlightment on this subject please

TSM

TSM - Have a look at Banana Shark's website and you will probably get a feel for the sort of seating that Cookee feels is appropriate on different boats. He does use jockey's on his 6m boat (<150HP).

In general they ARE a practical solution in "small" boats like yours. They may no longer be as appropriate on very fast / powerful boats.

[John Kennett]

I don't think size of boat is an issue, and for the vast majority of RIBs jockey seats are fine.

Higher speeds a definitely an issue though, as the likelihood and severity of a hook get much greater. As a rule of thumb I'd say that at speeds around or exceeding 50mph (45kts) jockey seats are unlikely to be the best choice. In fast boats bucket seats are a much more secure option.

[Dry Run]

I think jockey seats are fine but are of course a compromise between safety, comfort, practicality, etc and as such will fall short in certain areas. I find them the best option for ribs in The Solent as I quite like my internal organs where they are.

I'll leave shock mitigation seating for a different thread!

[John Kennett]

To be fair you're talking about fairly normal RIB usage, which suits jockey seats fine. You should see if you can get a run out with Neil Holmes sometime though and let me know how much use jockey seats would be in his Phantom Evo!

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

Some enlightment on this subject please

TSM

Blimey I'm getting quoted in thread titles now!

We did indeed make a 6 metre RIB with jockey seats in and we sold it to a very satisfied customer from Ribnet - to my knowledge he has never been thrown out of it and from memory it's only just over 40mph top speed. Our 770 had a seat that we developed in house that could be flipped over and sat on top of for slow speed use and it turned into a sit down seat with good side support for faster use.

My comments were made as someone who has regularly pushed the boundaries of performance and know what it feels like to hook a boat violently. With top speeds of boats approaching and exceeding the 50mph mark I believe this is beyond the safe limit of many hulls on the market fitted with jockey seats. Of course if you aren't going to push the limits and get into a hooking situation then you'll never have a problem.

Another thing that people forget is that it can happen in a straight line, if you have a trip and stuff, often the boat will turn violently in one direction of the other when the bow hits, this often hurts more than when a boat hooks in a turn as it will decelerate violently at the same time as hooking which is how you can get facial injuries.

If you can picture all of the above whilst sitting on top of a seat, even with "Wings" on the backrest the best they will do is bruise your ribs on the way out. Once in a bucket style seat there is a greatly increased chance of staying in the boat without relying on footstraps which are great at destroying cruciate ligaments.

All of the above is of course in my opinion.

[two stroke mick]

Thank Cookee for clarification. No offence made. I now understand that you comments relate to high speed high preformace boats

TSM

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

Thank Cookee for clarification. No offence made. I now understand that you comments relate to high speed high preformace boats

TSM

I would include any RIB with jockey seats capable of speeds approaching 50mph - this also depends on the hulls likelihood of hooking, some hulls will even do this at 40mph or slower.