Kill Cords

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by PeterM

His view was same as Chris..unless someone is competent you'd not want to survive falling in, then get killed by an attempted recovery......

IMHO, that's a pretty extreme scenario. The remaining 'crew' member would have to have a degree of competency in order to re-start the boat and attempt a recovery. Why he should then mash the guy in the water, I'm not sure?
If I were the guy in the water and still compos mentis, I'd be yelling instructions which would include "go steady" and "switch off near me, not on top of me".

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by Mollers

IMHO, that's a pretty extreme scenario. The remaining 'crew' member would have to have a degree of competency in order to re-start the boat and attempt a recovery. Why he should then mash the guy in the water, I'm not sure?
If I were the guy in the water and still compos mentis, I'd be yelling instructions which would include "go steady" and "switch off near me, not on top of me".

Unless you are single handed on a charter boat and your able to shout etc ....

A degree of competancy to turn a key to start the engine I guess most would be able to do ( its like a car after all )....but not to drive a boat with enough skill I suspect ?

A 7.5m boat of any kind suddenly seems very very big and solid if you are in the water...

I'll stick to my choice of rather only let someone who knows what they are doing pick me up if I ever fall out !

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by PeterM

I'll stick to my choice of rather only let someone who knows what they are doing pick me up if I ever fall out !

I like my crew to be of at least average intelligence and have full cognitive function.

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by Mollers

I like my crew to be of at least average intelligence and have full cognitive function.

Privatly yes - charter/ commercial you dont get a choice - but we digress into commercial operations...

Kill cord - yes I have a spare on the boat - but you can restart the Yam with it out for I think 60 secs after it gets pulled ? ( I did it once by accident then realised it was not clipped in place..)

[chris.moody]

The two most common mistakes I see with MOB drills are:

1. Overshooting the MOB due to not using neutral enough (too much way on)
2. Forgetting to kill the engine when in close proximity to the person in the water

Next time everyone is out why not try dumping a bucket and fender in the water, and moving your boat 50 yards away and stopping the engine. Then ask your crew to restart the engine and go and pick up the fender pretending it is you in the water. Do not give them any assistance or further instruction and see how close the fender and bucket gets to the running engine.

[willk]

I've played around with this Chris. You're right!

"Getting" the MOB seems to be the natural focus, to the detriment of their wellbeing. Obviously I'd prefer not to freeze to death, but it's preferable to having my head Sushi'd...

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by willk

I've played around with this Chris. You're right!

"Getting" the MOB seems to be the natural focus, to the detriment of their wellbeing. Obviously I'd prefer not to freeze to death, but it's preferably to having my head Sushi'd...

I've seen this a couple of times when acting as a volunteer safety boat a few years ago. 'Getting' the casualty (in this case a 7m racing catamaran on it's side being swept quickly towards a groyne) seemed to be more important than actually having any kind of plan on how to deal with the issue or any kind of situational awareness.

When the 2 boats attempting to assist finally got out of the way, we had to dart in at the last second, shout' wrap this round the mast step and hang on' then tow them away from the groyne in reverse til they were in a safe position (and the right orientation to the wind) for us to right them.

Tide/sea state and the mast being downwind in a F5 made any attempt to right the cat where it was doomed to failure.

[SimonCh]

I keep a spare kill chord in my starboard flare box (no flares in that one - just phones and car keys) I wouldn't go out in anything rough -although I accept that you can just as easily go overboard when calm- with someone who is totally incapable, I always show my crew how it works, where to find the spare, and once we are out the harbour, I throw in a buoy and we do a practice MOB. I appreciate this isn't reasonable for commercial charters etc, but I am generally out with mates who quite enjoy the experience, it gives them a shot of driving, and gives me some confidence!

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by PeterM

Kill cord - yes I have a spare on the boat - but you can restart the Yam with it out for I think 60 secs after it gets pulled ? ( I did it once by accident then realised it was not clipped in place..)

Peter; what year is your Yam?

My 2005 F115 would not start without the killcord key in place (and it was a real PITA to reinsert, too.) Swapped it out for a Merc kill cord, with the toggle switch.

jky

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by SimonCh

I keep a spare kill chord in my starboard flare box (no flares in that one - just phones and car keys) I wouldn't go out in anything rough -although I accept that you can just as easily go overboard when calm- with someone who is totally incapable, I always show my crew how it works, where to find the spare, and once we are out the harbour, I throw in a buoy and we do a practice MOB. I appreciate this isn't reasonable for commercial charters etc, but I am generally out with mates who quite enjoy the experience, it gives them a shot of driving, and gives me some confidence!

If out with mates a practice MOB drill is a great idea. Gives both skipper and crew confidence that they know what to do if it all goes pear shaped.

[Hightower]

How many practice a helmsman overboard and pull out the kill cord before watching crew go back and recover the victim?

[kerny]

Originally Posted by Hightower

How many practice a helmsman overboard and pull out the kill cord before watching crew go back and recover the victim?

I must admit I'm not one of them H, I keep meaning to teach the wife, but for various reasons I never seem to get round to it.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Hightower

How many practice a helmsman overboard and pull out the kill cord before watching crew go back and recover the victim?

I tend to boat with "crew" who are hugely more qualified than I am, so I don't have to worry about them. I have done the exercise with family however, and it's well worth doing.

[lakelandterrier]

I've fixed a cargo net to the aft face of the console - spare kill cord, safety knife, chiongraph pencil / phone / waterproof notebook / all stowed ready for immediate use.

We do practice MOB with Mrs T helming & children watching for "Fred" ....haven't tried it with anything like my weight - a slim 14stone to pull back into the boat....best I'd not go over!

[willk]

That's an excellent list of kit to have to hand. I'm told that using the (stopped) engine as a step or lift can work very well. You'll have a manual trim/tilt button on the engine, the theory is that you stand on the plate and use the engine to lift you. I have no idea if it works in practice but as a diver, I'd guess that in calm water it should work...

A looped rope will make a reasonable step if fixed to a grab handle.

[mick]

I have used the engine plate to get in its handy especially with twins as its near the tube as well

[lakelandterrier]

I've know in thoery you can lift an MOB on the enginge.....be a bit tighr under the A-frame.

We cary a plastic boarding lader - easy to deploy over the transom, but it all depends how fit the MOB will be upon recovery!

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by lakelandterrier

I've know in thoery you can lift an MOB on the enginge.....be a bit tighr under the A-frame.

We cary a plastic boarding lader - easy to deploy over the transom, but it all depends how fit the MOB will be upon recovery!

When fully clothed and wearing sailing gear it is VERY difficult hauling yourself up a flexible ladder, it tends to wobble about as soon as you try and put any pressure on it with your feet. If you have ever tried entering a life raft from the water you will know how hard it is, it surprised me.

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Peter; what year is your Yam?

My 2005 F115 would not start without the killcord key in place (and it was a real PITA to reinsert, too.) Swapped it out for a Merc kill cord, with the toggle switch.

jky

It's a late 2006 50....it defo went with no cord in....

[neil.mccrirrick]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

When fully clothed and wearing sailing gear it is VERY difficult hauling yourself up a flexible ladder, it tends to wobble about as soon as you try and put any pressure on it with your feet. If you have ever tried entering a life raft from the water you will know how hard it is, it surprised me.

I guess that adds to the whole theme. How many of us, (who I assume are the main driver/boat handler), have voluntarily jumped out, and then tried to get back in?

Its relatively easy when diving, but you have fins on to lift you.

I'm with Chris, I have tried this in my drysuit, no fins. Its doable but its not easy and you need to work out a way to do it.

I guess worst case scenario, if you are recovering someone, you may well need to get in to give em a push from behind , course you then will need to get yourself in as well.