Kill Cords

[Nick Hearne]

I never leave the kill cord on the boat always take it out with the keys, think this may help me to remember to conect it to me as well as the boat as it is a reminder rather than just having it fitter permantly to the boat!
But my wife would tell you it because I'm anel about safety

[Starovich]

Try explaining to the wife and 2 daughters that if it had been a requirement to use a kill cord and if some one was enforcing it, then dad and sister may still be alive?

How may other lives have been affected by this?

How many lives is a reasonable cost to make this simple thing a requirement , someone be brave and tell me how many children have to grow up without parents or siblings?

[wavelength]

Well there is an interesting suggestion in the other thread that by changing common practise from keeping the cord on the controls and connecting / disconnecting to the user to keeping the cord on the user and disconnecting from the controls as it would reduce risk of forgetting. IF there is a belief that this is actually better practice its something that training centres could start doing easily

twas me I believe. We'll be going that way. There was a thought in the past that attaching to a buoyancy aid/lifejacket was a "bit iffy" as it could come off. Not something I have ever seen any sense in-borne out of an excuse for a big rib running up the beach minus its professional helmsman. I had it a attached to my buoyancy aid but it came off-yeah of course you did!
What I have seen is a helm come out of the seat in a coastguard rib at full chat in an "interesting" sea but fail to activate the switch cos whilst his head was on the deck his foot was adjacent to the switch.

[Nick Hearne]

Originally Posted by Starovich

Try explaining to the wife and 2 daughters that if it had been a requirement to use a kill cord and if some one was enforcing it, then dad and sister may still be alive?

How may other lives have been affected by this?

How many lives is a reasonable cost to make this simple thing a requirement , someone be brave and tell me how many children have to grow up without parents or siblings?

But making it a requirement by law dose not mean this accident would not have happened!
Drink driving is against the law but it still happens and takes lives, how the hell are you going to in force this out in the real world?

[kerny]

Originally Posted by Nick Hearne

But making it a requirement by law dose not mean this accident would not have happened!
Drink driving is against the law but it still happens and takes lives, how the hell are you going to in force this out in the real world?

Well put!! I think that is the crunch of the matter.

[lakelandterrier]

Originally Posted by rachel

I'm also going to have a rethink about where we keep our spare (normally buried in a locker).
Rachel

The spare killcord needs to be somewhere quickly acessible and obvious. I keep mine & other safetey kit like emergency knife in a cargo net afixed to the console. On my previous boat it was taped next to the wheel. There's bound to be a a place somwhere on your boat, even if looped round a grab-rail.

Welcome to active Ribnet by the way

[kerny]

Originally Posted by lakelandterrier

Welcome to active Ribnet by the way

Sorry Rachel , you seem to have been neglected. A big welcome from me too

[Starovich]

Originally Posted by Nick Hearne

But making it a requirement by law dose not mean this accident would not have happened!
Drink driving is against the law but it still happens and takes lives, how the hell are you going to in force this out in the real world?

So we get rid of all laws as they are hard to enforce?
so Drink Driving is OK then we shouldn't have a law against it as its too hard to enforce?

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by Nick Hearne

But making it a requirement by law dose not mean this accident would not have happened!
Drink driving is against the law but it still happens and takes lives, how the hell are you going to in force this out in the real world?

The arrogant irresponsible few will continue to drive without seatbelts / drink drive / drive while holding a mobile phone / not wear lifejackets / refuse to put on the kill cord regardless of legislation or laws.

But if you can educate the majority to the benefits of using a kill cord that's a major win.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Nick Hearne

But making it a requirement by law dose not mean this accident would not have happened!
Drink driving is against the law but it still happens and takes lives, how the hell are you going to in force this out in the real world?

That's my thinking too.

• There's nobody to enforce it.
• Training costs for mandatory training will skyrocket (as has happened in every sector that has had mandatory training legislated)
• You cannot legislate against stupidity or genuine oversight.
• You can only remain out of sight for so long. Ask government to intervene and we'll end up with a 'department' that wants to justify its existence in order to keep themselves in employment.

Educate people. By and large, if people understand the risks they'll wear the kill cord.
Those that don't aren't going to wear the cord if it's made law either.

[Nick Hearne]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

The arrogant irresponsible few will continue to drive without seatbelts / drink drive / drive while holding a mobile phone / not wear lifejackets / refuse to put on the kill cord regardless of legislation or laws.

But if you can educate the majority to the benefits of using a kill cord that's a major win.

I think we agree there then, education not legislation and new laws

[Poly]

Originally Posted by wavelength

twas me I believe. We'll be going that way.

Well, if you mean you developed my thinking

Originally Posted by Poly

The other 'trick' is to keep it attached to YOU when you get out. Then you have to reconnect to drive.

Originally Posted by wavelength

I'm thinking the way forward for us may be a kill cord on every buoyancy aid/lifejacket on the boat and no spare.

[Starovich]

So, how long was it known that its common sense to wear seat belts?
how much "education" was put in place (Clunk Click)?
Yet it wasn't till it was made illegal not too that attitudes changed.

Yes, some still don't wear a belt but the majority do.

[Nick Hearne]

Originally Posted by Starovich

So, how long was it known that its common sense to wear seat belts?
how much "education" was put in place (Clunk Click)?
Yet it wasn't till it was made illegal not too that attitudes changed.

Yes, some still don't wear a belt but the majority do.

But how are you going to in force it?????
The open sea is a very big area to police!

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Starovich

So, how long was it known that its common sense to wear seat belts?
how much "education" was put in place (Clunk Click)?
Yet it wasn't till it was made illegal not too that attitudes changed.

Yes, some still don't wear a belt but the majority do.

I suspect that the red light on the dashboard and the annoying beepers had far more influence on wearing seatbelts than the law did.

[Starovich]

Originally Posted by Nick Hearne

But how are you going to in force it?????
The open sea is a very big area to police!

and i say again... just because its hard to enforce doesnt mean its not worth doing.

Start withe the areas that DO have enforcement.
MOD plod in Portsmouth Harbor.
Regular marine police in the Solent.
If the QHM can come over an moan at me as i crossed the channel 50 meters the wrong side of the marker they can do something which will have a greater positive impact.

OK not all areas have this level of coverage, in the same way if you see a copper in Dale (West Wales), you can bet hes lost.

[Starovich]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

I suspect that the red light on the dashboard and the annoying beepers had far more influence on wearing seatbelts than the law did.

Now there is an idea that could work. plug/clip stitched to the LJ which completes the circuit when plugged into the kill cord?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Starovich

So, how long was it known that its common sense to wear seat belts?
how much "education" was put in place (Clunk Click)?
Yet it wasn't till it was made illegal not too that attitudes changed.

Yes, some still don't wear a belt but the majority do.

http://www.theaa.com/public_affairs/...elt-report.pdf

Suggests that (1) 300+ lives a year are saves by seatbelts (2) about 14% of the population are apparently intermittent users! although it seems only about 5% of drivers are when driving. (3) its estimated another 300 lives a year could be saved if there was 100% compliance with this law. (4) Professional drivers seem less likely to wear than car drivers.

So: - the scale of the problem is rather different (probably 500x more impact from car law?)
- its much easier to enforce on the road (existing infrastructure, identifiable drivers, identifiable vehicles, defined roads v's open sea)
- even where there is enforcement and recognition of the benefits compliance is far from 100%.

Actually - the bloody annoying "pinging" that modern cars do probably has more to do with compliance than the vague possibility you might get £60 fine if you happen to get caught!

[Dan Gurney]

So if you want to swap drivers you have to swap lifejackets?

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Starovich

and i say again... just because its hard to enforce doesnt mean its not worth doing.

Start withe the areas that DO have enforcement.
MOD plod in Portsmouth Harbor.
Regular marine police in the Solent.
If the QHM can come over an moan at me as i crossed the channel 50 meters the wrong side of the marker they can do something which will have a greater positive impact.

OK not all areas have this level of coverage, in the same way if you see a copper in Dale (West Wales), you can bet hes lost.

They can see your boat. It's a bit bigger and more visible than a killcord

It's not difficult to enforce, it's impossible. That and as I said earlier,ask government to intervene and we'll end up with a 'department' that wants to justify its existence in order to keep themselves in employment.
Once somebody trying to keep themselves in a job starts to produce studies, MPs think they can gain votes by 'helping'.