Knife for Lifejacket

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by whiteminiman

A knife attached to a lifejacket or PFD is there for one purpose, and one purpose only. To save a life.

WMM

Agree so unless involved in rescue or safety cover don't see the point in trying to look like Rambo

I carry a cheap long serrated knife as used in cooking stored on the boat in case anything gets tangled around the prop and a leatherman for every day boating and teaching .

If I am providing safety cover then I have a rescue Knife and bullet throw bag that I wear on a belt .

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

Good gosh. And I thought Canada's gun control laws were insane. Fortunately Canada's gun registry program is about to be dismantled - what a huge waste of money that was!

All our latest laws are insane - Britain is about the only place in the World you can't buy a normal handgun - not even with a licence. That means you can't even practice pistol shooting for the Olympic games!!!

Of course you can still buy a 2500ft lbs shotgun but nobody would dream of being naughty and saw the barrels off.......

They have even banned some types of flares after some idiot at a football match killed someone in the crowd - of course the flare they banned wasn't the same type that kiiled the poor bloke but since when as common sense ever mattered???

It is more than a little ironic that since all these laws have come in there are more people carrying knives than ever - they don't give a damn about the law as the only people who get in trouble are decent people who wouldn't do any harm anyway.

[Aidan]

hi codders, we are allowed no hand guns here for many years.
Having been in reserve Navy for many years, we used all these weapons.
However much to alarm of my brother I brought my older boys uptown in Orlando where they have Firing ranges and here i taught them to fire .22 hans guns, 9 mm beretta among some others. Great fun.
It does not teach them to be killers as I pointed out to my bro, it is just in addition to their education. I fired these among heavier duty machines, didnt kill anything'''

I believe in having access to training with weapons.

I also believe strongly that if all the Algerian Women and perhaps Sudanese had a AK47 and sufficient rounds, there would alot less raping and pillaging and murdering of their children by forces sometimes of dubious backround.

God! part of this world stinks!!!!

[Simon B]

Just found this, frighteningly under my bed, had forgotten it was there. It's a Buck knife all the rage in the late '80s but nigh on useless for anything less than mammoth butchery. I'll post a picture of my Kershaw which is a serated lock knife that I ground a lambs foot end onto. Much more sensible and good for man made rope. Went a bit rusty so scoth brited it and splothered divers silicone grease all over it.

[codprawn]

Personally I am a fan of the Khukuri - now that's what you call a knife!!! Has many uses and is a legitimate tool - great for chopping wood.

Seriously though I reckon any divers knife in or around boats has to be ok.

[Aidan]

[QUOTE=Simon B;182862] Just found this, frighteningly under my bed, had forgotten it was there.
Ok Simon, I guess you never heard about the Princess and the pea!!!!!!

Why dont you bring her flowers instead?

Looks like someone is playing Rambo!!!
No! means No! Simon

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by whiteminiman

A knife attached to a lifejacket or PFD is there for one purpose, and one purpose only. To save a life.

Technical Rescue Magazine - http://www.t-rescue.com/ - ran a group test on Rescue knives in either issue 47 or 46. Unfortunately, it's not available online.

The last time I was doing a Swiftwater & Flood Rescue Technician refresher at Holme Pierrepont we did an interesting little exercise that highlighted some of the more popular brands design flaws.

We were simulating a foot entrapment, but rather than the classic "under a rock" scenario, we were using a rope that we tied round one leg to simulate it getting tangled in something under the water. The Tech then had to stabilise their position, locate their knife or shears, locate the rope under the water and release themselves.

Problems with folding blades not opening very easily when you are wearing thick WET gloves, problems with the catches on the sheaths not being easy to operate with thick WET gloves on. The handy clips and loops, clipping and looping themselves onto places that we didn't want them to clip/loop. Some people learnt some very valuable lessons about places to mount the knife on their PFD.... not in a pocket, not in a place where you might stab/slash your face/neck when you take the knife out, in a place that you can easily reach with both hands.

One handed operation is vitally important, and on that basis alone, I will never use a folding blade as my rescue knife. Blunt tips are a good idea around inflatables.

Some excellent information

Originally Posted by whiteminiman

Remember though, the more expensive the knife.. the more likely you are to loose it to the river/sea bottom. On that basis, certain rescue experts recommend the TuffCut style of scissors that paramedics use.... they only cost a couple of quid, you can use them with one hand, and they'll cut through pretty much everything, and if you loose them it doesn't matter.

Cheers, WMM

My main reservation about the tuff cut scissors is that the jaws may not be wide enough for larger diameter ropes, and a greater amount of coordination and precision might be needed to get the rope/webbing within the jaws than with a more open blade. Also, how well do the sheaths for these work, particularly for life jacket attachments?

As for losing the knife at the bottom of the lake, that should not happen, since the knife should be tethered to the sheath with an arm's length of small diameter shock cord (see my earlier photos), and the sheath should be securely fastened to the lifejacket.

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

Agree so unless involved in rescue or safety cover don't see the point in trying to look like Rambo

I carry a cheap long serrated knife as used in cooking stored on the boat in case anything gets tangled around the prop and a leatherman for every day boating and teaching .

If I am providing safety cover then I have a rescue Knife and bullet throw bag that I wear on a belt .

I think the point of whiteminiman's statement that;

"A knife attached to a lifejacket or PFD is there for one purpose, and one purpose only. To save a life."

is not limited to operations of rescue or safety cover, but also for self rescue emergencies, which is virtually never a preplanned event. Having a knife stored somewhere on the boat would rather useless if you're overboard for whatever reason. The point of having the knife on your lifejacket or flotation suit is because the knife is much more accessible at that location than on your belt. As for concerns about looking like Rambo, I doubt any of us need to worry about mistaken identity simply because there is a little knife on the front of a bright yellow PFD.

If you are running a small boat of any type (be it RIB, SIB, raft, canoe or kayak) through fast moving water (esp. rapids) I think it is very prudent to have a specialized river knife mounted on your lifejacket.

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

I think the point of whiteminiman's statement that;

"A knife attached to a lifejacket or PFD is there for one purpose, and one purpose only. To save a life."

is not limited to operations of rescue or safety cover, but also for self rescue emergencies, which is virtually never a preplanned event. Having a knife stored somewhere on the boat would rather useless if you're overboard for whatever reason. The point of having the knife on your lifejacket or flotation suit is because the knife is much more accessible at that location than on your belt. As for concerns about looking like Rambo, I doubt any of us need to worry about mistaken identity simply because there is a little knife on the front of a bright yellow PFD.

If you are running a small boat of any type (be it RIB, SIB, raft, canoe or kayak) through fast moving water (esp. rapids) I think it is very prudent to have a specialized river knife mounted on your lifejacket.

Can you give me an example other than rescue or safety cover why I need to carry a knife on my lifejacket or pfd.

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

Can you give me an example other than rescue or safety cover why I need to carry a knife on my lifejacket or pfd.

As both whiteminiman and I have previously mentioned, if you are ejected from the boat and get entagled in rope, line or webbing, a knife attached to the lifejacket will be most readily accessible.

Let me put it another way; Can you show me a future date in your calendar where you've marked:

"Will be unexpectedly ejected from boat, leg will be entagled in rope while held under fast moving water. Be sure to clip emergency knife to lifejacket immediately prior to setting out. Remove and return to storage box upon return." ?

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

As both whiteminiman and I have previously mentioned, if you are ejected from the boat and get entagled in rope, line or webbing, a knife attached to the lifejacket will be most readily accessible.

Let me put it another way; Can you show me a future date in your calendar where you've marked:

"Will be unexpectedly ejected from boat, leg will be entagled in rope while held under fast moving water. Be sure to clip emergency knife to lifejacket immediately prior to setting out. Remove and return to storage box upon return." ?

I alway's make sure my ropes are secured or stowed away so that in the event I ever get unexpectedly ejected from boat leg will not be entangled in rope.
Give me another example of non rescue/ safety boat scenario where I need a knife attached to my lifejacket /PFD.

[Jono Garton]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

Can you give me an example other than rescue or safety cover why I need to carry a knife on my lifejacket or pfd.

1. Lobster Pot line round prop and in a big sea

2. A Sailing dinghy capsized close to me once and a girl on board the dinghy had a trapeze harness around her neck, she said i saved her life.

3. Take a look at this for rope round you prop - http://pwllhelilifeboat.co.uk/Photos/12July.jpg

4. Me and Sammo came across a kite surfer 3nm out tangled in is lines once, we had to act quick.

5. Pirates & Sharks (not the ones that run marinas).

I personally think its a vital bit of kit as when on the water as a professional water user you are always a rescue boat.

Jono

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

1. Lobster Pot line round prop and in a big sea

2. A Sailing dinghy capsized close to me once and a girl on board the dinghy had a trapeze harness around her neck, she said i saved her life.

3. Take a look at this for rope round you prop - http://pwllhelilifeboat.co.uk/Photos/12July.jpg

4. Me and Sammo came across a kite surfer 3nm out tangled in is lines once, we had to act quick.

5. Pirates & Sharks (not the ones that run marinas).

I personally think its a vital bit of kit as when on the water as a professional water user you are always a rescue boat.

Jono

Jono - I don't think Tim or anyone else was doubting that having a knife on board was important - but does the average person on a rib need one on their PFD or would readily available on the boat not cover 99% of events.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Jono - I don't think Tim or anyone else was doubting that having a knife on board was important - but does the average person on a rib need one on their PFD or would readily available on the boat not cover 99% of events.

Assuming you something happens to you 10 times then you have a 1 in 10 chance of being screwed each time (I know the maths don't quite add up here but you get the point). It's about being ready for anything that can happen.

Essentially you are your own first line of response unless there's a rescue boat in attendance constantly.

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by Jono Garton

I personally think its a vital bit of kit as when on the water as a professional water user you are always a rescue boat.

Jono

Jono
I carry a leatherman in my pocket and a sharp knife stored on board and for general boating this is ok in my view and if required as a fellow water user always give assistance, as we all should whether amateur or professional.
As a Trainer of Inshore Rescue Boats for the Royal Life Saving Society UK I carry a rescue knife on a belt as opposed to pfd/lifejacket personal choice also a throw bag is attached to same belt.

General boating the former is sufficient for 99% of the boating community in my view.
The latter 100% of the time for rescue work or safety boat coverage .

I don't have a problem with people wanting a good safety knife but dislike people wearing them for the sake of it and the image it projects.

Have you ever been stabbed it hurts, maybe this just reinforces my thoughts on knives they have a purpose but unless you are engaged in rescue or safety work put the knife away.

In giving assistance to another water user I have time to get to my equipment I also carry a set of bolt croppers on board and a stiffneck collar and comprehensive first aid kit totally unnecessary for the average leisure user I know but it is stored on my boat.

With reference to the kite surfer I though the ropes were made of Dyneema (spelling I know ) and that you could not cut it.
Perhaps I will learn more about that at the kite surfing seminar.

[Jono Garton]

Hi Tim

Originally Posted by tim griffin

General boating the former is sufficient for 99% of the boating community in my view.
The latter 100% of the time for rescue work or safety boat coverage .

I don't have a problem with people wanting a good safety knife but dislike people wearing them for the sake of it and the image it projects.

Totally agree.

Understand about the stabbing thing, I have a friend who's wife was stabbed in Kwik Save by the butcher behind the meat counter, he went to pull the butcher off his wife and got stabbed as well, they both nearly died.

I like these blunt end style sheaf knives, going back to earlier in the thread I too use a leatherman style swiss army marine knife, just find it hard to open with gloves/cold hands etc.

Re Kite Surfing not all lines are Dyneema (Your spelling is correct), I'm currently running 40kg polyester lines on my quadfoil, Dyneema generally Starts at 50kg and runs up to 230kg.

Jono

[codprawn]

You can cut Dyneema no probs - in fact many of the safety knives claim to cut it in just one pass.

The one thing that always scares me in a RIB is a capsize - most of the time you would be thrown clear but there is a chance you will be underneath. Even well stowed ropes etc could suddenly fall out of lockers etc in such a situation so a knife always to hand would be a good idea.

Talking of cutters etc rather than knives I bought a really clever but wicked device from Lidel a while ago - basically it's a one handed cutter that uses a Stanley knife blade to chop down onto a solid metal block. It is scary how easily it will cut all sorts of things - includiong fingers if not careful. It will slice through very thick rope with hardley any effort and just needs one hand. Dirt cheap as well.

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by codprawn

You can cut Dyneema no probs - in fact many of the safety knives claim to cut it in just one pass.

The one thing that always scares me in a RIB is a capsize - most of the time you would be thrown clear but there is a chance you will be underneath. Even well stowed ropes etc could suddenly fall out of lockers etc in such a situation so a knife always to hand would be a good idea.

And what sort of knife do you have then Codprawn to bring this thread back on topic.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

And what sort of knife do you have then Codprawn to bring this thread back on topic.

All sorts - nice and shiny and I have Magpie syndrome!!!

I mainly carry a Gerber rescue knife but not that impreesed with it as it is a folding action which could be a pain in an emergency. I think I will invest in a RYA type rescue knife - much easier in an emergency.

I also usually have a nice folding knife in my pocket which has a whistle built in along with a fire starting steel. Not much use on a boat with 500L of petrol on board but a great knife!!!

[Jono Garton]

Looks Good Codders.

I Just Ordered On Of These, 3" blade so shouldnt look like rambo, Not Bad For £7.99