Loch Lomond RIB accident

[Paul Glatzel]

Below is the link to the report on the above accident issued this morning here. Aside from the points made about use of killcord etc there is also a reminder to everyone to ensure that checking hydraulic steering sytems properly is a part of the regular maintainance schedule as it appears this was a key factor in two people being lost overboard.

Paul

[MikeH]

The report says that the National Park will require people to wear a lifejacket on all boats; However in the latest proposal going before the Scottish Executive for approval this has been watered down to 'All boats shall carry lifejackets for all people on board".

We always wear life-jackets but a lot of people don't and the new bye laws won't require them to.

This was an awful tragedy and I hope that the lessons learnt means that there will be less in the future.

[Steve Waters]

Paul, thank you for the opportunity to read this report. The loss of two lives in such a simple accident shows how important it is that ALL members of a crew have a basic understanding of how to provide basic help in an emergency.
How sad that the raising of two arms instead of one may have made the difference to help arriving sooner. But more to the point what a very brave young lady to enter the water to try and rescue her sister.
Although the catalogue of neglect to the hydraulic steering was the cause of this accident how just one of many other safety measures could have led to it being a simple ducking from which a lesson was learned rather than such a loss.
A very very sad story

[codprawn]

I always believe the MAIB reports are essential reading - always better to learn from the mistakes of others.

It is nice to see the national parks allowing people to CHOOSE wether or not they should wear lifejackets. On my boat kids will be MADE to wear them - adults advised.

The poor girl who survived must have gone through hell - all thoughts with her an her family.

I also think it's a good idea to teach everyone who goes on your boat basic operating procedures etc - you never know when they might be needed.

i know it's easy to say but I think if the people in the other boat had been a bit more observant things could have been very different. Always carry binoculars and keep a proper watch.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

It is nice to see the national parks allowing people to CHOOSE wether or not they should wear lifejackets. On my boat kids will be MADE to wear them - adults advised.

I don't know why they didn't make it compulsary. The vast majority of people on the Loch wear life jackets anyway. I can only presume that some of the largest boat users objected to the wording of the proposed new bylaw. I have not heard anyone opposed to it. I can't understand why you would leave it open for someone else (probably far less knowledgeable of the possible risks than you) to decide if people wear lifejackets on your boat. I accept my boat is a lot smaller than your future boat - but yours is a lot faster - if someone does go overboard and drown because they are not wearing a lifejacket - how will you feel?

I have been asked if everyone was WEARING lifejackets before launching every time we have been up at the loch this year. (Not sure what happens if you say no).

Originally Posted by codprawn

I also think it's a good idea to teach everyone who goes on your boat basic operating procedures etc - you never know when they might be needed.

In principal I agree - but I think I would rather swim back to the boat or have a lifeline thrown to me than have an inexperienced helm point the hull and prop at me. Probably better to ensure they know how to use the safety / rescue equipment.

Originally Posted by codprawn

i know it's easy to say but I think if the people in the other boat had been a bit more observant things could have been very different. Always carry binoculars and keep a proper watch.

Your not suggesting they are in any way to blame are you? That's proposterous. There is no way you can expect a couple of guys out fishing on Loch Lomond to be acting as some sort of safety cover for the high speed power boat users. No life jackets, no kill cord, poor steering system maintainence, no VHF, no flares. I'm not trying to point the finger - but I don't think anyone could reasonably expect that without those safety measures that anyone on the loch that day could have saved them.

I was disappointed that the MAIB report didn't make any comment on the fact that there is only a low chance of VHF calls being picked up at the loch, and that the park rangers don't have VHF when on shore (they have it on their launch but aren't out on the water all the time). The official method of reporting an emergency is via mobile phone, despite the fact that coverage (especially at the top of the loch) is crap. Less than 10% of people on the loch have a VHF - because the only people you can call are the other 10%!

Neil

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Your not suggesting they are in any way to blame are you? That's proposterous. There is no way you can expect a couple of guys out fishing on Loch Lomond to be acting as some sort of safety cover for the high speed power boat users. No life jackets, no kill cord, poor steering system maintainence, no VHF, no flares. I'm not trying to point the finger - but I don't think anyone could reasonably expect that without those safety measures that anyone on the loch that day could have saved them.

I was disappointed that the MAIB report didn't make any comment on the fact that there is only a low chance of VHF calls being picked up at the loch, and that the park rangers don't have VHF when on shore (they have it on their launch but aren't out on the water all the time). The official method of reporting an emergency is via mobile phone, despite the fact that coverage (especially at the top of the loch) is crap. Less than 10% of people on the loch have a VHF - because the only people you can call are the other 10%!

Neil

I don't think it is unreasonable for other boaters to keep an eye open for other people in trouble!!! It says that the cabin cruiser actually passed BETWEEN the people in the water and the girl in the RIB - they thought she was just waving at them.

I am NOT blaming them - just that if they had used a pair of binoculars they would have seen the girl was in distress and MAY have been able to rescue the people in the water.

You point out they didn't have vhf on the RIB but then - quite rightly - point out it is a waste of time on a Loch anyway!!!

I think a lot of boaters may not be aware of just how cold these lakes/lochs can be - far colder than the sea!!!

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by codprawn

It says that the cabin cruiser actually passed BETWEEN the people in the water and the girl in the RIB

It also said "a passing cruiser saw the RIB AT A DISTANCE". and that they were too far away to determin the sex of the occupant.

I agree with you that people on the water should look out for each other and in my experience they do and in my opinion the cruiser did, as they slowed acknowledged the presence of the RIB and established contact and satisfied themselves that all was ok. It is unfortunate that this was not the case but there can be absolutely no blame put on to those in the cruiser.

Are you suggesting that everytime someone waves at you from a boat you intend to stop and get your binoculars out to check they are not in distress?

There are some clear lessons I'm sure we can all learn from this tradgic event and I don't think trying to lay any blame is helping anyone. The MAIB have made their investigation and I for one will be thinking about their findings for some time.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Mike B

It also said "a passing cruiser saw the RIB AT A DISTANCE". and that they were too far away to determin the sex of the occupant.

I agree with you that people on the water should look out for each other and in my experience they do and in my opinion the cruiser did, as they slowed acknowledged the presence of the RIB and established contact and satisfied themselves that all was ok. It is unfortunate that this was not the case but there can be absolutely no blame put on to those in the cruiser.

Are you suggesting that everytime someone waves at you from a boat you intend to stop and get your binoculars out to check they are not in distress?

There are some clear lessons I'm sure we can all learn from this tradgic event and I don't think trying to lay any blame is helping anyone. The MAIB have made their investigation and I for one will be thinking about their findings for some time.

I am NOT laying blame on them!!!

And yes I think binoculars should be carried at all times - combine them with a compass and you have a really usefull bit of kit!!!

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I am NOT laying blame on them!!!

And yes I think binoculars should be carried at all times - combine them with a compass and you have a really usefull bit of kit!!!

I don't disagree and I think you'll find I didn't say that, but I certainly don't use mine everytime I get waved at.

[Jimbob]

I think the report is clear enought

Part of a powerboat one and two you

1) Check you have safety equipment and the book gives the basic equipment
2) You always wear a life jacket
3) You are asked to check the steering
4) Kill cord and know how to put it in

I am very sorry this happened

[Jon Brooks]

This is a very very awful thing to have happened.

We should all learn from this.

It would seem that IF the steering was serviced, IF they had their life jackets on, IF the kill cord was worn and IF they had a VHF radio they might still be with us today.

I guess its easy to sit here and pontificate on the subject of safety.

Either way this is very sobering for all of us.

My daughter does not get on a pontoon without her jacket on.
If I am driving or in charge of the boat all wear life jackets or they don't come out.

I guess I might be seen a tad anal over this but that's just the way I am.

How does the RNLI add read at the mo:-

"LIFE JACKET, THE NAME SAY'S IT ALL"

Or words to that effect.

Regards

[MikeH]

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

I guess I might be seen a tad anal over this but that's just the way I am.

How does the RNLI add read at the mo:-

"LIFE JACKET, THE NAME SAY'S IT ALL"

Or words to that effect.

I agree absolutely with you.

Interesting how these proposals have been watered down.

In the MAIB report:

All passengers to wear a lifejacket

In the first consultation earlier in the year:

All passangers to wear lifejackets execept in the enclosed parts of the boat.

And the final proposal that all boats should carry lifejackets.

With modern gas inflators I just don't understand why you wouldn't wear one if one was available.

[ollyit]

totally agree - lifejackets always, I have 3 lifejackets, so only 3 people get on simple, unless they have their own