MAIB interim report on Seadogz fatality

[Iankristy]

Yeah pretty much agree. We’ll both know about a ‘super powered’ rib built specifically for thrills. From my own experience though seafari has different elements, nature, historical, experiencing the wild. There’s also a thrill of the boat though. I’ve always briefed skippers that we get used to speed, passengers are experiencing it for the first time on the water for the most part. 40+ knts doesn’t seem that fast to me 25knts is plenty fast for a passenger. These thrill rides are too extreme, unnecessary. An hour on a rib is plenty thrill for most.

[69cmw]

Some peoples ideal of thrills could well be someone else’s idea of boring though 🤷*♂️

[tinker]

Heartbreaking all around, Emily's family will never recover and neither will the skipper or his family or anyone involved from the charter company.

We all take risks, especially in a recreation like boating. RIP Emily, I hope everyone involved
can, in time , find some peace.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by tinker

……neither will the skipper or his family or anyone involved from the charter company.

Let’s see if either return to the industry then.

[spartacus]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Absolutely, even rollercoaster rides in controlled environments still go horribly wrong. Looking for “thrills” on the unpredictable sea is asking for trouble.

Alton Towers Smiler crash: Four seriously hurt http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32980354

Let's not even go there. I chose state side for a reason. Anyway, let's not lose sight that of the facts.

Potentially the family can seek a private prosecution. In all honesty it shouldn't be this difficult to seek justice.

[Iankristy]

Originally Posted by tinker

Heartbreaking all around, Emily's family will never recover and neither will the skipper or his family or anyone involved from the charter company.



We all take risks, especially in a recreation like boating. RIP Emily, I hope everyone involved

can, in time , find some peace.

Heartbreaking it is. Taking risks should not be part of a commercial operation though. Eliminating risk should be what’s it’s about. Of course leaving your front door incurs risk but that’s where health and safety starts protecting you. Your car, traffic regs, building control. All designed to eliminate risk. The airplane industry probably the best example. If a plane crashed we wouldn’t say ‘we all take risks, especially when we fly’. Everything from risk assessments, boarding, equipment, safety talk, route, weather, speed, ability/ health/ fatigue of skipper should be in place to eliminate risk. Why on earth would you be doing 40knts anywhere near a strike able object. There’s no hiding from it here, safety procedures were not followed and skipper didn’t take his responsibility for the care of his passengers seriously. I feel sorry for all involved. Those hurt and those who have to live with their actions[emoji17]

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Let’s see if either return to the industry then.

Having spent the last 2 1/2 yrs involved and attending court and giving evidence , attending for nearly six weeks and the sentence yesterday, I can assure you both men left the industry the day after the accident

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

Having spent the last 2 1/2 yrs involved and attending court and giving evidence , attending for nearly six weeks and the sentence yesterday, I can assure you both men left the industry the day after the accident

Good, that’s a start.

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Good, that’s a start.

No idea what else you want to happen, a life was lost. People seriously hurt inc skipper. Skipper a highly skilled RNLI coxswain and trainer. Owner also rescue crew was not at work that day but looking after sick child.
No winners and industry will suffer fall out . We expect many more changes still.
Majority of industry changed the next day. Few operate anything near this old operation now and suspect if they do it won’t last much longer

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

No idea what else you want to happen, a life was lost. People seriously hurt inc skipper. Skipper a highly skilled RNLI coxswain and trainer. Owner also rescue crew was not at work that day but looking after sick child.
No winners and industry will suffer fall out . We expect many more changes still.
Majority of industry changed the next day. Few operate anything near this old operation now and suspect if they do it won’t last much longer

Am I the only one to see the irony in your statement?
1 person dead.
Others seriously injured.
Untold damage to the industry.
And the perpetrators walk away with a slap on the wrist. And you ask me what more do I want??
Maybe if you step outside your self interest bubble, you can appreciate the enormity of what’s happened & the subsequent injustice.
If this had happened on the roads, the perpetrators would be facing life for causing death by dangerous driving.
You can continue to defend the indefensible, as you have done throughout this sorry episode, but you’re only fooling yourself.

[neil.mccrirrick]

Appreciate I wasn’t in court but the road traffic act states

. The Road Traffic Accident Act defines death by dangerous driving as a person who causes the death of another by driving a vehicle in a dangerous way on a road or in a public place. Causing death by dangerous driving is the most serious driving offence and has severe penalties.

Max is 14 years in prison and unlimited fine …….

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by neil.mccrirrick

Max is 14 years in prison and unlimited fine …….

As of June 22, the max sentence is life.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk...erous-driving/

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Am I the only one to see the irony in your statement?
1 person dead.
Others seriously injured.
Untold damage to the industry.
And the perpetrators walk away with a slap on the wrist. And you ask me what more do I want??
Maybe if you step outside your self interest bubble, you can appreciate the enormity of what’s happened & the subsequent injustice.
If this had happened on the roads, the perpetrators would be facing life for causing death by dangerous driving.
You can continue to defend the indefensible, as you have done throughout this sorry episode, but you’re only fooling yourself.

Defending no one, I listened to case,gave evidence, listened to the court arguments and judges route to verdicts and also judges directions on sentencing
I respect the system .
Again the laws do not exist on the water, hence the legal case and arguments, the only sentence guidelines were health and safety not road laws

If you really be.I eve they walked away then I feel you should have spent time in court listening to evidence. The jury decided on evidence the judge decided on law. I defend no one but the legal system .

From this changes have occurred and we are process of introducing legal docs which presently don’t exist. MCA is working with our industry to move this document and put it to an act of parliament so it becomes statute laws

So yes what more do you want from an accident?

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

As of June 22, the max sentence is life.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk...erous-driving/

Road laws don’t apply in this case, likewise no statutes but Maritime Laws

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by neil.mccrirrick

Appreciate I wasn’t in court but the road traffic act states

. The Road Traffic Accident Act defines death by dangerous driving as a person who causes the death of another by driving a vehicle in a dangerous way on a road or in a public place. Causing death by dangerous driving is the most serious driving offence and has severe penalties.

Max is 14 years in prison and unlimited fine …….

Yes the police via CPS charged manslaughter by gross negligence . The jury unanimously decided not guilty on that indictment

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

If this had happened on the roads, the perpetrators would be facing life for causing death by dangerous driving.
You can continue to defend the indefensible, as you have done throughout this sorry episode, but you’re only fooling yourself.

Law requires evidence to prove offences even on roads, hence they introduced a lesser offence of careless driving causing death.
Like all acts of law, points have to be proved, the definitions of every offence are worth reading.
In relation to boat events the MCA have had not introduced laws despite numerous accidents. They in process now of writing acts after Cheeki Rafiki deaths in 2014. Target date 2024!
This assumes parliamentary time with present government let alone a change Of government

I also listen to heartbreaking account from family and other injured parties. I sat through it , easy sat at home to criticise without knowing what occurred at court

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

You can continue to defend the indefensible, as you have done throughout this sorry episode, but you’re only fooling yourself.

Yes I challenged you and other before about discussing the case before the trial as matters were sub judice.
That was not defending anything but Natural Justice and ensuring matters went to court and you or others did not undermine a jury trial.
I wanted everyone from the family, the injured and those involved to have a fair trial as law demands and not to have case discussed before the evidence was heard by a jury,

This has been a bloody awful event for all involved and I would not wish it on anyone. If I defend justice then so be it as we all abide by laws or face a court to decide on evidence

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

Yes I challenged you and other before about discussing the case before the trial as matters were sub judice.
That was not defending anything but Natural Justice and ensuring matters went to court and you or others did not undermine a jury trial.
I wanted everyone from the family, the injured and those involved to have a fair trial as law demands and not to have case discussed before the evidence was heard by a jury,

This has been a bloody awful event for all involved and I would not wish it on anyone. If I defend justice then so be it as we all abide by laws or face a court to decide on evidence

I think the point is everyone commenting doesnt agree that justice has been served in this instance & those charged got off with causing death & Injuries very lightly. I agree with pikey & the others & cant understand why you think justice has been served. I'd wager the victims dont think like you do

Sent from my SM-G950F using RIB Net mobile app

[Matt]

We all know he is privately both thinking "What a travesty for the family" while also thinking "phew, I may still have a business left". He just can't say that.

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by Matt

We all know he is privately both thinking "What a travesty for the family" while also thinking "phew, I may still have a business left". He just can't say that.

Matt my business is not the same as the one involved who sold fast short trips. The charter industry is a different animal.
No I don’t say Phew .