MAIB Report, A Salutary Tale - Page 3

chewy · 26 October 2009, 18:00

Humbers site states 17 persons for that boat.

tonymac · 26 October 2009, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy

Humbers site states 17 persons for that boat.

I wouldn't like to put 17 on such a boat. Would you?

.

Jizm · 26 October 2009, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by westerlystorm

Similarly the "Antrim Cruise" feature in the current edition of Rib International does little for ASIS or Suzuki (IMO) and if I worked for either of these companies marketing departments I would be none too happy.

I agree with you on that one...

chewy · 26 October 2009, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonymac

I wouldn't like to put 17 on such a boat. Would you?

.

Depends what the conditions were and if the crew were half cut.

PeterM · 26 October 2009, 21:47

In an emergency I'd load my boat up as far as I could. If my 4m is 'rated' to 7 - then for me that becomes 10 at a push in the right conditions . On the 7.5m I'd be around 15-20 if pushed.

Just look at the all weather lifeboats - you can get what 100 + ( the exact number escapes me).

chewy · 26 October 2009, 21:55

I think we can have 20 on a 75 plus crew and still make 10kts.

m chappelow · 27 October 2009, 00:15

my old humber 16 was rated at 10 persons plus 60 hp engine,.though, ,5 was enough ,,with regards to the atlantic 75 your right phil ,and blackroadys correct with the all weather boats but the self righting capability is drastically reduced, with the trent class its 28 persons self righting and 102 non righting .,,,,,,going back to the sad and tradgic incident ,,,as much as mariners these days use g.p.s/ plotters /radar ect its all back down to good old seamanship basics ,,keeping a good lookout and only going as fast as you can see to stop or avoid,and its all too easy to get complacement,

westerlystorm · 27 October 2009, 01:25

One of our Scottish members said it was hard to imagine how dark it gets around the waters where this accident took place. Having cruised in my Westerly Storm for the last 10 seasons between Portrush and Canna, including some overnight sails I can assure you it really does get dark and on a moonless night it is pitch black. At 20 knots without the plotter having had a fix this would have been very scary.

Have a look at this website and click on the leftmost image and it will put things into perspective.

No comments on Scottish frugality allowed BTW :-)

http://www.darkskyscotland.org.uk/darksky.html

chewy · 27 October 2009, 08:36

I know its a shame when accidents like this happen but if it had been a car that veered off the road for ANY reason and the occupants were under the influence would every one have been as sympathetic?

m chappelow · 27 October 2009, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by westerlystorm

One of our Scottish members said it was hard to imagine how dark it gets around the waters where this accident took place. Having cruised in my Westerly Storm for the last 10 seasons between Portrush and Canna, including some overnight sails I can assure you it really does get dark and on a moonless night it is pitch black. At 20 knots without the plotter having had a fix this would have been very scary.

Have a look at this website and click on the leftmost image and it will put things into perspective.

No comments on Scottish frugality allowed BTW :-)

http://www.darkskyscotland.org.uk/darksky.html

it too spent many seasons in the same area in the 80s both with small fast power and sailing craft taking many passages in total darkness and after visiting the local hostilerys,but the prudent use of a look out with hand held spot/search light and keeping speed down was paramount,, also as only dry suits were worn and the crew were not wearing lifejackets/lights would they have been located with an m.o.b situation if it was that dark.,its food for thought for many of us.

willfinch36 · 17 November 2009, 11:13

ouch. intresting read though.

BruceB · 17 November 2009, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by westerlystorm

One of our Scottish members said it was hard to imagine how dark it gets around the waters where this accident took place.

I can walk exactly 10 feet from my front door and I can see the milky way on a cloudless night and I live in the town itself.
Imagine just how much darker it is if I walk 1 mile! The effect of light pollution is cumlative and even with a streetlight 20 feet away I can still see the milky way as the are is generally dark and there is no "halo" effect from thousands of lights!

willk · 17 November 2009, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceB

I can walk exactly 10 feet from my front door and I can see the milky way on a cloudless night

At the risk of turning this thread into a game of Ribnet Gamesmanship, have a dekko at the light pollution map below. That nice black void in the NW corner of Ireland. Home

. When I leave the house at night without yard lights on, I run the risk of walking into a parked car or Rib. Tubes good, skegs bad. The flip side is the clear nights when the full moon shines. Then the entire valley below is illuminated and you can see for miles.

A certain city based Ribnobber spent a couple of nights in the house. He mentioned trouble sleeping. Concerned, I asked why? (thinking Cold? Hard Mattress? Cat bring him a Mouse?

"Too quiet, I could only hear my circulation while trying to sleep"

Chris · 17 November 2009, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

A certain city based Ribnobber spent a couple of nights in the house.

TimW

willk · 17 November 2009, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

TimW

Wrong city. More chance of it being Mollers

Puffin · 17 September 2011, 17:12

Just noticed this case coming up, was reported in the Oban Times.

Skipper 'killed diver by running boat aground while drunk' | Glasgow and West | STV News

SeaSkills · 18 September 2011, 19:37

I was going to keep out of this thread, as I met these guys the day before the accident and had a very pleasant chat with them. I don't want to get drawn into the discussion about drinking and driving - that is surely so clear and obvious that it is hardly worth debate. It was a sad accident and I really feel for the survivors and families

The drift into boating after dark has tempted me in, though. This is our "patch" for training, and we run a lot of Advanced powerboat courses and exams out here. It really does get dark sometimes and when you see some of the poorly equipped boats and drivers that head out, you can't help wondering how we escape without more sad stories

20 knots in those conditions isn't unusual, but it certainly isn't what we'd normally recommend, especially if the only electronic aid you have is your GPS. I've been in the unfortunate position of acting as expert witness for an incident where a boat was driven up the beach at 20 knots in the dark, and I've witnessed a few near misses. A good radar and the ability to use it properly (the 2 don't always come together) helps enormously, and is much more reassuring than a GPS. I had a little discussion with one person on an Advanced exam earlier this year who somehow became immortal (in his own mind) because he had a "spare" GPS in case his main set failed. Both ran off the same battery. When I switched that supply off, he went to pieces. And he had no understanding at all of assessing whether or not his GPS status was accurate or not (at one point the HDOP dropped to 8, and it was very obvious to me - but not to him - that the lighthouse which was showing half a mile abeam on the screen of his plotter was the one that he couldn't see without looking through his A-frame)

Anyway, rant over - I'm off to watch the rest of the Countryfile programme from just down the road in another playground, the Falls of Lora

Ian

PS. That guy failed his exam, naturally