***Major Hypalon patch***Need Help

NOVURANIA MX430 · 10 January 2013, 20:47

Hi guys,
Really impressed by this forum and all the useful knowledge and help provided by the professional RIBER'S
However I need some help and advice in doing a major patching job on a Novurania Hypalon, its a u shaped cut 10 cm X 5 cm X 10 cm on the bow
and another one on the same tube 10 cm long
they are not near each other they are about 50 cm away
I know that an inside patch is needed
but its kinda difficult to do the u shaped one as it's located where the fiberglass meet the tube there is a very tiny area where i can stick my hand between them
also the glue i have in my area is the clifton 2 part and the polymarine 2 part
so which one is better ?

C-NUMB · 10 January 2013, 20:55

As a third option, I believe "sc2000 rema tip top" is available in Your region, also that makes a very strong bond.

NOVURANIA MX430 · 10 January 2013, 20:55

This is the u shaped cut, the hole in the fiberglass is for the navigation light pole socket (just in case if you were wondering what the heck is this)

NOVURANIA MX430 · 10 January 2013, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by C-NUMB

As a third option, I believe "sc2000 rema tip top" is available in Your region, also that makes a very strong bond.

i know that this glue is meant to be used in heavy industrial applications which includes rubber (hypalon) and for sure will be more powerful than the the other recreational glues lol, but will it remain flexible ? and also wondering if you know any directions for reactivation in case of future repairs or anything that might go wrong with this repair ?

Ribshop · 10 January 2013, 21:33

All I can say is good luck.

Johnscubanut · 10 January 2013, 21:37

Possibly a stitching job followed up by very very large patch?

Johnscubanut · 10 January 2013, 21:38

Always had success on hypalon with Bostick 2 part adhesive!

sunrider · 10 January 2013, 23:54

I've used the Clifton adhesive and it worked fine...no experience with the Polymarine. That doesn't look like an easy patch from what I can tell from the picture - may be difficult to get it done correctly unless you have a lot of experience. Can you remove the tubes to give better access for the repair?

C-NUMB · 11 January 2013, 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by NOVURANIA MX430

i know that this glue is meant to be used in heavy industrial applications which includes rubber (hypalon) and for sure will be more powerful than the the other recreational glues lol, but will it remain flexible ? and also wondering if you know any directions for reactivation in case of future repairs or anything that might go wrong with this repair ?

No idea if sc 2000 makes as stronger bond than other hypalon/rubber glues, but I am sure it is strong enough. As for flexibility, would not worry, this glue is also used for gluing conveyor belts so guess it must remain flexible. The reason I used it was mainly due to easy sourcing, otherwise would have used Bostic as it has a good reputation. The bonds are pretty permanent, not much other options than heat and mechanical work to separate them?

Looks like a challenging job.

NOVURANIA MX430 · 11 January 2013, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnscubanut

Possibly a stitching job followed up by very very large patch?

stitching is good idea though i don't see a lot of people doing it, wondering if you try it before ?
also thought of covering the whole portion of the tube not only patch it
kinda stronger and better looking

jyasaki · 11 January 2013, 17:36

I've seen a hypalon SIB that took a detour through a barbed wire fence (trailer decided to leave the tow vehicle); it was repaired in a *lot* of places using the stitch and patch method. Ended up looking sort of like Frankenstein's monster, but it did hold air.

I suspect you'll have to remove the tube from the hull (I'm assuming you'll need better access to the tear than you have with the hull bond in place), open up a seam with easier access, repair that tear (stitch for strength, patch inside and out), then reglue your access seam and rebond to the hull.

And, if you're going to do all that, you may want to look into replacing either that section of hypalon, or replacing the tube altogether.

jky

NOVURANIA MX430 · 11 January 2013, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyasaki

I've seen a hypalon SIB that took a detour through a barbed wire fence (trailer decided to leave the tow vehicle); it was repaired in a *lot* of places using the stitch and patch method. Ended up looking sort of like Frankenstein's monster, but it did hold air.

I suspect you'll have to remove the tube from the hull (I'm assuming you'll need better access to the tear than you have with the hull bond in place), open up a seam with easier access, repair that tear (stitch for strength, patch inside and out), then reglue your access seam and rebond to the hull.

And, if you're going to do all that, you may want to look into replacing either that section of hypalon, or replacing the tube altogether.

jky

There's already another cut under it which makes it easier to reach from the inside of the tube, so there's no need for opening a seam to work it from the inside but i'm considering removing the tube from the hull although i believe it can be done without doing so, because if i pulled the tubes to the front it gives me about 3 inch space between the tube and the fiberglass which is enough for preparing but very tricky when applying the glued patch in the right place, after i can use the fiber as a support and press on it with roller from inside
wondering if there is a special way to stitch it or a special thread ? or it's just any stitch to hold it together, i was thinking in using a braided fishing line and do a stitch like the on in the pic below

Johnscubanut · 11 January 2013, 21:23

I had to stitch a 10 inch gash in the bow section of my old rib when i crunched into old iron pilings! Doh!
Just used whipping twine & sewed it up (you could use braided fishing line also tho) then glued a luvly big long patch over the damage using bostik 2 part!
Held well & never leaked air, right til I sold it on!

jyasaki · 12 January 2013, 23:55

I'd go for a standard inthrough the fabric, out through the tear, in through the fabric, repeat type stitch (whatever that's called). Fewer noles, and more fabric between them.

The stitching is to sort of hold the edges somewhere near each other while you get the patches glued on.

jky

paul tilley · 13 January 2013, 08:22

we NEVER stitch ,always patch on the inside then when cured inflate and patch the outside .for your repair i would use 3 strips of fabric on the inside to make the U shape as they are easier to put on than a big patch , then when inflated put a big covering patch on the outside .it is a very simple repair if you take your time over it

raymillard · 13 January 2013, 09:30

The idea of an internal patch fills me with dread. Do you do it while the glue is still soft and you can move things about?

paul tilley · 13 January 2013, 14:23

glue should never be to soft/wet or it will not bond properly . if you dont position it properly pull it apart and start again ,and again ,and again untill you get it right

.if its worth doing do it right

jwalker · 16 January 2013, 23:41

A problem I've found when repairing is that if the tear was caused by pressure on the fabric, rather than a clean cut, the fabric may be stretched. If this type of damage is repaired edge to edge then the result will be a bulge on the tube after the repair is completed. To overcome this, as small amount needs to be removed from the damaged edge, equal to the stretching, then the edges can be drawn together by stitching.

NOVURANIA MX430 · 17 January 2013, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

A problem I've found when repairing is that if the tear was caused by pressure on the fabric, rather than a clean cut, the fabric may be stretched. If this type of damage is repaired edge to edge then the result will be a bulge on the tube after the repair is completed. To overcome this, as small amount needs to be removed from the damaged edge, equal to the stretching, then the edges can be drawn together by stitching.

Thanks for the useful information as I've never read or heard anything about the fabric being stretched if the cut was caused by pressure, will investigate more in my cut and any way i was planing to patch it first with a Tear Aid patch which is kinda like a strong transparent adhesive tape used for temporary emergency repairs, so i can inflate it and make a good profile patch as I'll cover the whole section of the tube, not that big though

Regarding the stitching a lot of people are against doing so and some other recomend doing it but i believe i'm gonna go for it depending only if the inner layer of textile fabric is perpendicular to the stitch but if it's horizontal won't do it

NOVURANIA MX430 · 17 January 2013, 03:18

***FYI***
Just did a stitching test on a piece of hypalon fabric, it's a D ring fabric which i had to remove to clear the way for the patch
and it was a complete failure, once i pulled, it torn the fabric and pulled the inner textile from the rubber, as i believed earlier the if the stitches is perpendicular to the inner textile it would be better but that didn't make any difference from the strength stand point on the contrary it made more damage as it pulled more textile threads from the fabric
my opinion is if you put any pressure in the future it will damage the edges where the stitches is done
and if it worked with some one before most probably the patch surrounding the cut is whats holding the air inside
also in the future if you had to redo the patch due to age issues you'll find yourself missing a peace of fabric in the edges of the cut
i recommend any one willing to do a stitching job to do that simple test before on another patching fabric and you'll know what i mean
I WON'T Do IT on my beloved Noah's Arch lol
PS the fabric i used in the test is in perfect condition