Makes me cringe

[chris.moody]

Originally Posted by captnjack

Seriously? The safeties are not there to rescue those who don't want rescuing. If they want to be rescued later that's fine, but with your logic any capsized dinghy requires immediate intervention to prevent something which "could" happen 10, minutes later, 30 minutes later, or never.

Yes they are, if they consider leaving the sailor in the water is a serious safety issue (e.g. hypothermia or total exhaustion or serious lack of experience for the wind and sea conditions).

A hypothermic person in the water will often not want to get into the safety boat and you have to take control of the situation as safety boat crew. Also a sailor not coping with the sea conditions will often not want to be taken ashore.

However I agree many safety boat crews can be over keen to perform a rescue, rather than stand off at a safe distance to observe.


Chris

--
Tigga - Avon SR4 Rescue with 40hp Yamaha 2 stroke

[Starovich]

Originally Posted by captnjack

OMG looks like that dinghy is going to capsize!!! The horrors. Must stop dinghy from capsizing!

You would not get safety boat duty for long around here with your overprotective attitude. And our water is no warmer than yours, with dinghy racing occuring year-round.

Sorry, not only not only did I get work on your side of the pond, I am also a US
Sailing Instructor Trainer/Assessor and a US Sailing Keelboat Instructor Trainer/Assessor.

I also ran the sailing programs at a very old and respected NY yacht club for 3 years, won national championships in J44's and raced in many of the classics over there.

In addition I have worked teaching sailing and powerboating for over 20 years in over 20 countries, so someone must think i know what i am doing.

[CelticNate]

Does anybody know if the guy in the water survived and how he did in the race?

[captnjack]

Originally Posted by CelticNate

Does anybody know if the guy in the water survived and how he did in the race?

Something tells me if either the skipper of the black dinghy or the white dinghy had a scratch or shiver mentioned in the newpapers, most of the cringers here would have crucified the safety boat cox's even worse than you already have.

I think they did a reasonable job; and it sucks to be second guessed on the internet by a bunch of nervous nillys via a video those cox's don't even know exists.

[matt h]

Looks and sounds like a load of hot air for.... er nothing!

[9D280]

Originally Posted by Starovich

I say again
Oppy nationals Line squalls gusts of 40knts, grab the kids leave the boats!

I wonder if we were ever rescuing the same fleet..... ?

In the nationals I rescued at the gusts like that flattened about 4 boats & the rest all had silly grins as they finally got on the plane!

Originally Posted by chris.moody

Yes they are, if they consider leaving the sailor in the water is a serious safety issue (e.g. hypothermia or total exhaustion or serious lack of experience for the wind and sea conditions).

A hypothermic person in the water will often not want to get into the safety boat and you have to take control of the situation as safety boat crew. Also a sailor not coping with the sea conditions will often not want to be taken ashore.

I have seen dinghy crews fight off the rescue boat (literally) and these were people who were clearly not in any state of physical distress.
Flip side I have seen people finally pulled out utterly exhausted and a matter of tens of yards before the dinghy was trashed on the beach after insisiting they could get the thing back upright and barrel rolling it a couple of dozen times.
Somewhere in the middle I have seen boats righted by the rib & sailed back by a crew who reckoned the bar was a better bet in this weather & dinghy crews joining the rescue boat to assist (in the water) with other rescues.

No "pro forma" can ever be used in a situation like this, even although some methods (see RYA rescue boat course or your local equivalent) can be proven to work better than others in most situations.

Originally Posted by CelticNate

Does anybody know if the guy in the water survived and how he did in the race?

I guess he survived or it would have been on the telly by now!

[9D280]

Originally Posted by matt h

Looks and sounds like a load of hot air for.... er nothing!

Aye, although I can see how the pictures may generate the discussion.

We haven't all come into ribs via tippy dinghies!

[matt h]

tippy dinghies

Ha Ha.. Made I laaarff

[CelticNate]

Originally Posted by captnjack

Something tells me if either the skipper of the black dinghy or the white dinghy had a scratch or shiver mentioned in the newpapers, most of the cringers here would have crucified the safety boat cox's even worse than you already have.
.

I was trying not to crucify him... My point being that he survived and therefore the rescue was successful... I couldn't care less whether he should of gone in nose first or side first. At least they got the boat out and everyone went home intact...

[Starovich]

Originally Posted by 9D280

I wonder if we were ever rescuing the same fleet..... ?

In the nationals I rescued at the gusts like that flattened about 4 boats & the rest all had silly grins as they finally got on the plane!

Not unless you were in the US in 98 but oppies are the same the world over bathtubs, with hankies

[GJ0KYZ]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

A hypothermic person in the water will often not want to get into the safety boat and you have to take control of the situation as safety boat crew. Also a sailor not coping with the sea conditions will often not want to be taken ashore.

You're absolutely right. I rescued two dinghy sailors from a similar situation and in similar weather conditions about two years ago. Their behaviour at the scene was completely irrational and I had to get Jersey Coastguard on the radio to tell them in no uncertain terms to get in my boat and let me tow theirs to the marina else they would have to be forcibly rescued by the St. Helier lifeboat. Even then it took a fair while before they complied; they wanted to remain in the sea and for me to tow their boat onto a lee shore. Needless to say I received no thanks whatsoever for my troubles from those two.

[alystra]

Originally Posted by 9D280

.........No "pro forma" can ever be used in a situation like this, even although some methods (see RYA rescue boat course or your local equivalent) can be proven to work better than others in most situations. .......

Agreed.

In this instance, I'm sure the rescue boat cox quickly worked out that the quickest way to get to the person in the water was to pull the dinghy clear of the catamaran. Slavishly following the 'get at the person first' mantra risked incapacitating the rescue boat in my opinion - and the rescue cox was obviously of the same opinion.

I may be old fashioned, but I've always understood that the skipper of the dinghy in difficulty is in charge, not the rescue boat, until such time as it becomes apparent that the skipper and crew cannot sort themselves out, either because of exhaustion or the effects of cold water. In my experience, one then gets a nod or a wan smile - and a thank you when they're hauled aboard. I'm assuming of course that the sailors are adults. If the sailors are children, or complete beginners, and the rescue boat is involved in training, then that's a different scenario altogether.

[Starovich]

Originally Posted by alystra

Slavishly following the 'get at the person first' mantra risked incapacitating the rescue boat in my opinion - and the rescue cox was obviously of the same opinion.

Can you explain your logic, i cant see how getting the person first would risk incapacitating the boat, not from a which way round you do it, but how the boat is more likely to get into difficulties?

I may be old fashioned, but I've always understood that the skipper of the dinghy in difficulty is in charge, not the rescue boat, until such time as it becomes apparent that the skipper and crew cannot sort themselves

If they are in difficulty, then by definition they are not in charge/control, i don't mean they have simply capsized, that's not in difficulty in my world.

A safety boat has the whole fleet to consider not just one vessel, the coxn has a better overview of the whole situation.
I am assuming the coxn is reasonably/trained experienced or has a experienced/trained crew to advise, if not they they shouldn't be out anyway.

[9D280]

Originally Posted by Starovich

Not unless you were in the US in 98

Nope, and I beat you by about 10 years!

Originally Posted by Starovich

but oppies are the same the world over bathtubs, with hankies

That's a bit harsh! The class has spawned some bloody good sailors over the last 20 years.

Ben Ainslie
Emma Richards
At least two or three of the recent UK olympic teams.....

Originally Posted by Starovich

Can you explain your logic, i cant see how getting the person first would risk incapacitating the boat, not from a which way round you do it, but how the boat is more likely to get into difficulties?

In this instance I can see a mooring (and it's associated underwater warp), two "air foul" lines connecting same to the yacht at a nice height to foul the seat backs / console / take the rib helm over the side, at least one mainsheet, possibly a couple of spinny sheets / halliard and if it's not a single hander a couple of jib sheets floating about (unsseen in those conditions) just below the surface. Oh, and being borne down on a solid object by tide & wind on top of the thing you are trying to rescue.

Apart from those small items I see nothing that would concern me about the safety of the rib Especially as the dinghy crew (or wetsuitted rescue crew) is obviously fit, well & assisting in the untanglement!






Has anyone thought that the injured / hypothermic / whatever dinghy crew may already be ashore by another rib & this is a recovery excersise 2 hrs later??

[Starovich]

Oh i think oppies are great, but still bathtubs with hankies

The point i was trying to illustrate was that to get in close enough to get either boat or person you run the risk of getting fouled.
Getting the person first simply means they are out of the danger zone sooner (i would have personally used a throw line to get them out of the mix if glass wire rope and chain).

[ribrunt]

Long time safety boat cox and ILB helm - score one for the safeties from me in this case too.

Only point I would challenge is the setup of the rib for towing, we always had bridles on the transom. Wouldn't fancy the "here - hold this" method shown!

Agree with some posters re. nosing in, but given the slop, breeze, tide and size of the safety boat not sure the welly would have been sufficient in reverse to get back out.

[JamesF]

It's the bit at about 12 seconds I wasn't keen on — the prop looks too close for my liking. I just can't work out what the best alternative is with all that wind and tide.

After that, the tow is a bit unusual but there's plenty of careful observation and a second safety boat seconds away downstream. It's not as if I haven't done some abnormal ones myself.

[Swifty]

One thing not picked up elsewhere, the tow line was attached to the hand hold of the seat, some 4 feet above the waterline.

The risk of capsizing the safety boat are huge and you can see the bow lifting as the helm applies power.