Managing PAX on a commercial RIB...

[Poly]

SPLIT FROM HERE: http://www.rib.net/forum/f8/some-rib...ars-54315.html

Originally Posted by tony t

Nice to see passengers enjoying the ride we went out on the Cardiff sea safari last August talk about health and safty..!! (i,m our company safty officer so i do know how important peoples safty is ) we were told you must have both hands on the bar in front of you at all times and not to let go, i was holding on with one hand and took a picture with the other, we were doing about 10 knots
this jumped up little helm person who was only about 22 stopped and procced to give me a bollocking in front of everyone i was told off and told to have both hands on the bar at all times or else she would take me back to shore and have me escorted off the rib
she then played the radio at full blast and started to show how good a driver she was
Needless to say i had a little word in her ear when we got back theres a way to talk to customers even if they are in the wrong
I wouldnt mind but we were only in the harbour and i was sat in the middle
I wont be going with them again

These people? http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...eer_Report.pdf
I can see why they might be a bit sensitive, and why a helm might be a little paranoid that her boss (who may well be watching) will bollock her for not following their "improved" procedures.

[tony t]

Originally Posted by Poly

These people? http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...eer_Report.pdf
I can see why they might be a bit sensitive, and why a helm might be a little paranoid that her boss (who may well be watching) will bollock her for not following their "improved" procedures.

Yes I can fully understand but come on you can't even blow your nose ..!! Besides a polite excuse me sir goes a long way ..! Not oi you you were told not to let go of the bar .. What do you think your doing .. If she was a he he'd of been swimming back

[Festinghouse]

Originally Posted by tony t

Nice to see passengers enjoying the ride we went out on the Cardiff sea safari last August talk about health and safty..!! (i,m our company safty officer so i do know how important peoples safty is ) we were told you must have both hands on the bar in front of you at all times and not to let go, i was holding on with one hand and took a picture with the other, we were doing about 10 knots
this jumped up little helm person who was only about 22 stopped and procced to give me a bollocking in front of everyone i was told off and told to have both hands on the bar at all times or else she would take me back to shore and have me escorted off the rib
she then played the radio at full blast and started to show how good a driver she was
Needless to say i had a little word in her ear when we got back theres a way to talk to customers even if they are in the wrong
I wouldnt mind but we were only in the harbour and i was sat in the middle
I wont be going with them again

you grumpy old fart

[kerny]

Originally Posted by Festinghouse

you grumpy old fart

He's a B.S.what did you expect

[Poly]

Originally Posted by tony t

Yes I can fully understand but come on you can't even blow your nose ..!! Besides a polite excuse me sir goes a long way ..! Not oi you you were told not to let go of the bar .. What do you think your doing .. If she was a he he'd of been swimming back

Well probably some 'elf and safety "officer" has been giving her (or her boss) a hard time and as usual common sense gets removed from the process as misinformation gets passed down the chain and guidelines become "the law" and "good practice" becomes "the only way". The risk assessment says "passengers will be told to hold on with both hands at all times", and "the skipper will stop the boat if passengers stop holding on as directed"...

I imagine she has an extra challenge as most of the middle aged men on board think they could drive the thing better than the silly little girl at the helm . Of course customer care is essential to any business, but I imagine that being able to be assertive with customers who think they can disregard the briefing they were given may actually be a valuable skill in some RIB trip markets (especially those who regularly work in the stag/hen markets etc). Obviously there may be a very small number of people who can do it all - but her primary concern should be your safety so its hard to fault a skipper who does that - even if you think her personal risk assessment or approach were a little OTT. You were there, and your nose was obviously put out of joint* which isn't great but have you considered though that a defensive response is how we all tend to react when we've done something 'wrong'? Or that a constructive discussion with her employers at the time might have been more enlightening than either arguing with her (for almost certainly following company policy) or using it to criticise them on the internet 8 months later? Perhaps they would have valued your view, not only as a customer, but an 'experienced' rib helm but also a health and safety guru... ...more likely though they'd see you as "another customer who can't follow the simple instruction to hold on"


* metaphorically speaking - its not like she slammed you into the seat in front and litterally put your nose our of joint - then you'd have been moaning about her skills for a different reason!

[kerny]

Originally Posted by Poly

Well probably some 'elf and safety "officer" has been giving her (or her boss) a hard time and as usual common sense gets removed from the process as misinformation gets passed down the chain and guidelines become "the law" and "good practice" becomes "the only way". The risk assessment says "passengers will be told to hold on with both hands at all times", and "the skipper will stop the boat if passengers stop holding on as directed"...

I imagine she has an extra challenge as most of the middle aged men on board think they could drive the thing better than the silly little girl at the helm . Of course customer care is essential to any business, but I imagine that being able to be assertive with customers who think they can disregard the briefing they were given may actually be a valuable skill in some RIB trip markets (especially those who regularly work in the stag/hen markets etc). Obviously there may be a very small number of people who can do it all - but her primary concern should be your safety so its hard to fault a skipper who does that - even if you think her personal risk assessment or approach were a little OTT. You were there, and your nose was obviously put out of joint* which isn't great but have you considered though that a defensive response is how we all tend to react when we've done something 'wrong'? Or that a constructive discussion with her employers at the time might have been more enlightening than either arguing with her (for almost certainly following company policy) or using it to criticise them on the internet 8 months later? Perhaps they would have valued your view, not only as a customer, but an 'experienced' rib helm but also a health and safety guru... ...more likely though they'd see you as "another customer who can't follow the simple instruction to hold on"


* metaphorically speaking - its not like she slammed you into the seat in front and litterally put your nose our of joint - then you'd have been moaning about her skills for a different reason!

I wonder !! if she ever missed a big fook off lighthouse and damaged her prop and skeg would she have heard the last of it . So pay attention and listen to what you are told TT

[tony t]

Originally Posted by Poly

Well probably some 'elf and safety "officer" has been giving her (or her boss) a hard time and as usual common sense gets removed from the process as misinformation gets passed down the chain and guidelines become "the law" and "good practice" becomes "the only way". The risk assessment says "passengers will be told to hold on with both hands at all times", and "the skipper will stop the boat if passengers stop holding on as directed"...

I imagine she has an extra challenge as most of the middle aged men on board think they could drive the thing better than the silly little girl at the helm . Of course customer care is essential to any business, but I imagine that being able to be assertive with customers who think they can disregard the briefing they were given may actually be a valuable skill in some RIB trip markets (especially those who regularly work in the stag/hen markets etc). Obviously there may be a very small number of people who can do it all - but her primary concern should be your safety so its hard to fault a skipper who does that - even if you think her personal risk assessment or approach were a little OTT. You were there, and your nose was obviously put out of joint* which isn't great but have you considered though that a defensive response is how we all tend to react when we've done something 'wrong'? Or that a constructive discussion with her employers at the time might have been more enlightening than either arguing with her (for almost certainly following company policy) or using it to criticise them on the internet 8 months later? Perhaps they would have valued your view, not only as a customer, but an 'experienced' rib helm but also a health and safety guru... ...more likely though they'd see you as "another customer who can't follow the simple instruction to hold on"


* metaphorically speaking - its not like she slammed you into the seat in front and litterally put your nose our of joint - then you'd have been moaning about her skills for a different reason!

Yes i excepted what she said, yes she was in charge,yes i did let go with one hand, at no point did i say to her i could drive it better or that i had a rib.. my nose was not put out of joint i did not enter into any argument with her, i was holding on firmly with one hand ..!!

If i only had 1 arm would they not allow me on the trip then ?

My point was her tone was very abusive shouting out and giving some one a right telling off i was holding on and simply took a picture while we where still cruising at a low speed.

Hands up i apologised to her when we got back but i do not and would not ever shout and ball at people in the way she talked to me that day.. i'm not criticising them here as you say She was a loud mouth who didnt do her employers any favours in my eyes.
A simple excuse me sir do you mind etc etc etc ...i,m not a Oi You etc etc etc , my argument is she had a terrible attitude which would stop me spending my money with them again..!!
So deal with it ..!!!

[Dhf]

Originally Posted by tony t

If i only had 1 arm would they not allow me on the trip then ?

My point was her tone was very abusive

Their all good at producing that tone when you give em a Certificate.

And thats a good point 1 arm , doing 10knt very unlikely to be thrown off, and most of us want snap shots on our hols, so that would've annoyed me too, as you say there's being safe and then there's just being FFS!!
I don't blame you not wanting to rebook.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Dragonhawk ficht

And thats a good point 1 arm ,

not really anyone with disabilities / problems is presumably asked to identify themselves at the start. A reasonable adjustment can then be made. That might be ensuring they are sat as far back as possible (least dynamic loading), seats with the most convenient hand holds etc, keeping an extra close eye on the passenger who is most vulnerable or even changing the style of driving.

doing 10knt very unlikely to be thrown off,

Previous injuries did not involve anyone being thrown overboard.

and most of us want snap shots on our hols, so that would've annoyed me too

I don't know what the "norm" is but the Sea Safari guys I have seen operating up here blat about and then stop in good places for people to get photos - whether it is wildlife, "geology" or historic ruins. That makes sense to me - when moving everyone is paying attention and holding on but when there is something worth shooting they some to rest which gets you a better picture and a safer way of doing it. Obviously you'd expect that to be explained in the briefing.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by tony t

at no point did i say to her i could drive it better or that i had a rib..

I never suggested that you did.

i'm not criticising them here as you say She was a loud mouth who didnt do her employers any favours in my eyes.

wow, I knew you guys in Wales spoke a different language - I didn't realise that your definition of English words like, criticise, was different too.
criticize - Wiktionary

my nose was not put out of joint

nose out of joint - Wiktionary

[kerny]

Originally Posted by Poly

wow, I knew you guys in Wales spoke a different language - I didn't realise that your definition of English words like, criticise, was different too.
criticize - Wiktionary

nose out of joint - Wiktionary

He's a Brummie!! but they too.. have a different language

[tony t]

Originally Posted by kerny

He's a Brummie!! but they too.. have a different language

don't you start Herman it's bad enough with these admins having a go ..

[Dhf]

Originally Posted by Poly

not really anyone with disabilities / problems is presumably asked to identify themselves at the start. A reasonable adjustment can then be made. That might be ensuring they are sat as far back as possible (least dynamic loading), seats with the most convenient hand holds etc, keeping an extra close eye on the passenger who is most vulnerable or even changing the style of driving.


Previous injuries did not involve anyone being thrown overboard.

I don't know what the "norm" is but the Sea Safari guys I have seen operating up here blat about and then stop in good places for people to get photos - whether it is wildlife, "geology" or historic ruins. That makes sense to me - when moving everyone is paying attention and holding on but when there is something worth shooting they some to rest which gets you a better picture and a safer way of doing it. Obviously you'd expect that to be explained in the briefing.

Fair point but discretion should be used when conditions are obviously favourable.
as for the injured 55yr old with previous back injuries, the helm should have noticed her suffering fatigue and repositioned sooner.
I agree taking pics at rest would get the best results, but potting along at 10knt in fair conditions is hardly dangerous, and the helm should give fair warning upon exceleration.