Mass Produced Ribs.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by paul tilley

in my humble opinion the best build quality of hulls is normally from the smaller manufacturer as are all of the uk rib builders but you will always get rogue (no offence stu)manufacturers like the one who used to use chipboard for the transom !!! ps riva where did the statistics come from the number of ribs built in the uk seems very high

Probably most of them being Avon.

[Rogue Wave]

Cookee, Paul I agree with what you are saying.

I don't know what your workload is but consider if you had to build say five hulls/tubes for the same order, would it be more or less cost effevtive for you to do so and would the quality standards be easier or harder to maintain.

I am not counting the costs of developing the mould or tube patterns as they would have already been done, I am just thinking of the production costs/effort

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I know what a chopper gun is and no i wouldn't want a boat produced by that method. As there is no real bonding between the layers of Mat.

I'd have to believe however that using proper laminating techniques on more of a production line basis might lead to some economy of scale leading to leading to a reduced COQ to the manufacturer and then hopefully the customer.

i agree to a point with what you say regarding the Chopper guns, but a lot of it depends on what specification of resin is used..... for any success in spray laminate, the use of low styrene emission resin is a no no!(surface wax preventing the toxic styrene escaping into the atmosphere) but i know from personal experience that certain high volume manufacturers use it due to styrene emissions and curing properties.....

However.... the same can be said for hand-layup techniques, but at least with hand layup there is a lot more control over the moulding being produced, but then is more time consuming...........

IMO Hand layup is far more reliable in the right hands!

[Rogue Wave]

well that's gud enuff for me! but how aboiut my other question

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

well that's gud enuff for me! but how aboiut my other question

what other Q?

[Jonny Fuller]

Originally Posted by Gav

i agree to a point with what you say regarding the Chopper guns, but a lot of it depends on what specification of resin is used..... for any success in spray laminate, the use of low styrene emission resin is a no no!(surface wax preventing the toxic styrene escaping into the atmosphere) but i know from personal experience that certain high volume manufacturers use it due to styrene emissions and curing properties.....

However.... the same can be said for hand-layup techniques, but at least with hand layup there is a lot more control over the moulding being produced, but then is more time consuming...........

IMO Hand layup is far more reliable in the right hands!

You didn't point out that woven cloth is a tad difficult to build with when using a chopper, or that the resin/fibre ratio is all bollix using chopper.....or that a chopper gun is far more 'unreliable' in the wrong hands.

Searay build quality is about as good as their speedo's accuracy!

gold plastic edging pushed on the edges of chipboard, anywhere thats not easily visible has the shabbyest workmanship known to man!

As for "state of the art hermatically controlled factories where perfect conditions are maintained for GRP production" Well it doesn't seem to reflect in the boats.

All IMHO

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by Gav

what other Q?

It's in the bit you highlighted!

I'd have to believe however that using proper laminating techniques on more of a production line basis might lead to some economy of scale leading to leading to a reduced COQ to the manufacturer and then hopefully the customer.

Id be interested in hearing the views of Gav, Steve the boat, TD, Leeway or Bryn? (trio) about it and indeed the toobers

Having read it agin it might seem i was asking your views on the Chopper Gun but I was asking about how things pan out when you are making a run of product

[Dirk Diggler]

Originally Posted by Mollulnan

How many Searays have you two owned?!!

I have to admit that I've never owned one, but thats because I've had the pleasure of repairing a few of them and I haven't been very impressed with the build quality.

Chipboard and mdf doesn't have a place in a boat, but that doesn't seem to stop these superior american built craft from using it in their construction! Mind you, if you only expect the boat to be used in a puddle, you'd probably expect to get away with it!

And as for chopper guns, being used by a mexican on $5.00 an hour, stuff that!

[Jonny Fuller]

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler

And as for chopper guns, being used by a mexican on $5.00 an hour, stuff that!

Yeah but don't forget that mexican is working in a:... "state of the art hermatically controlled factory where perfect conditions are maintained for GRP production"

[paul tilley]

stu small production runs of the same tube would give a very small cost saving in materials on curved tubes but not sectional ones and possibly a small labour saving ,it should also help to increase the quality of that product as you become more familliar with it but could also cause workers to become to familliar and try to make shortcuts and lower the quality . the most important thing that i have tried to install into all of my employees past and present is to get it right first time if not you will be taking apart and redoing it not quite so easy with fibreglass though !!!

[codprawn]

Talking of mass produced and fibreglass....

A mate of mine bought an Avondale Argente snailhome about a year ago. Top of the range and the biggest they do. Avondale have been making caravans for long enough to know what they are doing.

It wasn't long after he bought it that he noticed nasty cracks at the front and back - around the moulded in handles. These handles hadn't even been used to shift the van around with. When he complained they got him to take the caravan away to an independent repair centre where they have changed the complete front and back ends!!! Apparently it is quite a common problem and has been on other vans of theirs in the past!!!

Surely the company would have realised by now that a few extra layers of rovings or mat in the area concerned would save them a fortune in the long run? Obviously not!!!

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Mollulnan, you might want to have a read of this:

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/Fiberglass_Boats.htm

"One good example is a Sea Ray where the hull side had ONE layer of woven roving, two thin layers of chopped strand mat, and all the rest of the laminate was some kind of brittle putty".

Pete

That article is certainly an eye opener. I couldn't imagine spending the kind of money that some of these RIBs fetch without acually touring the plant to see exactly how the boat I am about to order is fabricated.

If the plant were within a reasonable driving distance I sould also put a stipulation in the contract that I could regularly stop in at the plant to check on it's progressive production. Many of the boats cost as much or more than houses, and it's pretty much a given that if someone were having a house built for them that they would regulary stop by the construction site to monitor the progress.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by prairie tuber

That article is certainly an eye opener. I couldn't imagine spending the kind of money that some of these RIBs fetch without acually touring the plant to see exactly how the boat I am about to order is fabricated.

If the plant were within a reasonable driving distance I sould also put a stipulation in the contract that I could regularly stop in at the plant to check on it's progressive production. Many of the boats cost as much or more than houses, and it's pretty much a given that if someone were having a house built for them that they would regulary stop by the construction site to monitor the progress.

Interesting idea... go and buy a Merc or any other "high end"car.. then ask if you can drop by the plant to see it being made...

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Jono

Interesting idea... go and buy a Merc or any other "high end"car.. then ask if you can drop by the plant to see it being made...

Funnily enough, they (Mercedes-Benz) invite you to do exactly that!

[Robox]

Aston Martin too!

Rob C.

[Nos4r2]

Ok, backa few pages...which manufacturer used to use chipboard transoms then?! Scary!

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Funnily enough, they (Mercedes-Benz) invite you to do exactly that!

Wonder, why they didn't invite me...

[Richard B]

It can only be personal!

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Ok, backa few pages...which manufacturer used to use chipboard transoms then?! Scary!

If I said that this was a UK rib manufacturer would that make a good rumour?

Pete

[Jono]

Originally Posted by Richard B

It can only be personal!

Yeah... probably... maybe the same reason a local boat builder (Hard boats and no-one on here.!!) won't welcome me back... well he did ask what I thought of his set up..... I think I was supposed to admire the elegant furniture in his craft and not lift all the hatches and poke around in the internal spaces...ho-hum...