Milly accident report published

[jumpinjack]

There is a lot to take in within this report.
Lots to consider, for all boat owners: Kill cords off course but appropriate seating, hull design, hand holds, alcohol, iso build standards, fly by wire controls, max engine Power, experience/training, unexplained actions amonst other things all come into play. I feel there are points for almost all to take from this report, despite your boat, training or experience.
Have any of you ever seen a warning sign in your boat that indicates maximum manoeuvre speed??
Another point I feel needs mentioned is the actions of several individuals that have been highlighted in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy, their selfless actions and bravery may have prevented more injury.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by willk

Paul Lemmer's published R.I. review of that hull (in the appendices) is fairly damning on that subject. He seemed to feel that the tendency for the stern to lift and plane sideways before violently digging in (slide/hook/sidedump/whatever) was a flaw in the design that could/should be addressed. I'm not sure when the article was published, or the Milly hull built.

On another note, the driver had a level of blood alcohol that suggests a couple of beers or similar had been consumed. Not enough to impair driving skills IMO, but maybe enough to relax and reduce the sense of caution.

Mixing 300hp with seawater is a heady cocktail that we'd all enjoy. But it's a mix that can turn sour very easily. Our nature is to enjoy ourselves and not focus on the bad stuff that "is never going to happen to us". Sometimes it does.

Boating - Do it Right - Everytime.

How about the Mods putting the report in the "features" section of the forum? When we get new members asking for advice/help etc. They could be pointed to the report as useful reading.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

How about the Mods putting the report in the "features" section of the forum? When we get new members asking for advice/help etc. They could be pointed to the report as useful reading.

I'll mention it to Lord Vetinari

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by willk

I'll mention it to Lord Vetinari

You have faaaaaar toooooo much time on your hands

[akirk]

The discussion of the 'hook' is interesting - I have my own RIB / have done the level 2 & advanced courses - but was not aware of that possibility... maybe it needs to open up some thinking on including in the course(s) things that might go wrong - at a more detailed level... There is a tendency to assume that a boat is like a car - bank round fast right / left and it will go where you point it... very sad case.

Alasdair

[MustRib]

Originally Posted by jumpinjack

There is a lot to take in within this report.
Lots to consider, for all boat owners: Kill cords off course but appropriate seating, hull design, hand holds, alcohol, iso build standards, fly by wire controls, max engine Power, experience/training, unexplained actions amonst other things all come into play. I feel there are points for almost all to take from this report, despite your boat, training or experience.
Have any of you ever seen a warning sign in your boat that indicates maximum manoeuvre speed??
Another point I feel needs mentioned is the actions of several individuals that have been highlighted in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy, their selfless actions and bravery may have prevented more injury.

Paul is completely right on this.
What alarms me - is that we have all witnessed what I can only describe as "relaxed ignorance" on the part of groups of people and families out on their boat in the Summer, behaving in pretty much the same way. The adults in question had both completed PB level 2, and would never have knowingly put their children at risk. How things can go so quickly wrong is the first thing that strikes me. No one on the boat was prepared for what unfolded.
This forum and its members are an informed and educated group of boat users, so preaching to the converted is only of value, if they then use that information to help and educate others.
Contentiously - I think that no legislation for kill cords (with an obvious question of who would police it even if there were) means that boat users should be comfortable with and prepared to comment, cajole, criticise other users to self police their boating safety.
Launching authorities can play a part - to launch here you must have one lifejacket for everyone on the boat, a functioning kill cord etc. (although having the kit doesnt always mean that it gets used). There will not be some overnight paradigm shift in boat users safety as a result of this. There will always be someone that goes out and buys a cheap boat on a whim with no training, or concept of the consequences when things go wrong.
But reaching the occasional boaters, the summer afternoon ones, those who would always wear their seat belts in the car.....must be an achievable aim.

[Ribandmotorhome]

I agree with the above.
However it is very difficult, boating is one of the last things we have left that is 'free and open' to all.
The fact anyone can do it is part of the magic of it and it's very special.
Putting people on the slipway is a good idea but they can't be there 24/7 and it would only increase launching costs.

I have thought for a long time there should be a national registration of boat owenership of some sort.

I would happily pay £20.00 or something to transfer a new boat to my name.

Then a pack of safe practices and safety advice could be sent out to all new owners each time!

The other issue is all boats handle differently, so you can get in another and suddenly realise it doesn't handle like yours, so it can take you by surprise easily!!

[Presuming Ed]

Originally Posted by teamplonker

This year I will be fitting kill cord stickers to the console as I sometimes forget at helm changes to put it back on.

My habit is to drape the cord round the wheel when it's not in use. Engine is switched off for all helm changes.

[SteveHall]

When I do any instruction I always teach to remove the cord from the rib then the driver for any helm changes.

[Jizm]

Originally Posted by SteveHall

When I do any instruction I always teach to remove the cord from the rib then the driver for any helm changes.

Kill cord discussions aside the article makes some very interesting points.
Still a very tragic accident and my thoughts are with the family...

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Ribandmotorhome

I have thought for a long time there should be a national registration of boat owenership of some sort.

Owner had a handover from the dealer. Owner had a 2 day RYA training course. Nothing there to suggest that having a paperwork system would do anything to reduce the number of accidents.

[Ribandmotorhome]

Originally Posted by Poly

Owner had a handover from the dealer. Owner had a 2 day RYA training course. Nothing there to suggest that having a paperwork system would do anything to reduce the number of accidents.

If the safe practice leaflets had pictures of dead cut up bodies and explain the risks and how it happened would have some effect though.

I would rather that than it leading to licensing and pricing people out of having a boat in the first place.

Thankfully it's rare compared to the amount of people afloat though.

[Ian M]

I'm on the RYA mailing list, and today noticed a "Safety Advisory Notice 01/2014", which is a first, and aimed at the leisure user. Makes oblique mention to this sad incident.
Doh, just seen SPR thread

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Ribandmotorhome

If the safe practice leaflets had pictures of dead cut up bodies and explain the risks and how it happened would have some effect though.

no it wouldn't - the only people who read "bumpf" sent out like that are people who are genuinely interested - you want to educate the disinterested: that is a much harder challenge. Every year your car, house and boat insurer send you a renewal letter usually with a pack of waffle telling you what has changed. Most people read the price and file the rest.

If it was an effective way to reduce casualties - insurers would/could already circulate it, as they are the ones risking picking up the bill.

[MustRib]

Interesting though all of the discussion of handbooks, boat handling, grab handles, alcohol consumption etc is - at the core of this incident is the use of the kill cord.
All of the family were wearing lifejackets, for sure they would have had a nasty shock at finding themselves in the water, but the use of the kill cord would have prevented the Rib from carrying on after the ejection.
Much like a seat belt in a car, it has to be made instinctive to reach for it and wear it.

[Ribandmotorhome]

Originally Posted by Poly

no it wouldn't - the only people who read "bumpf" sent out like that are people who are genuinely interested - you want to educate the disinterested: that is a much harder challenge. Every year your car, house and boat insurer send you a renewal letter usually with a pack of waffle telling you what has changed. Most people read the price and file the rest.

If it was an effective way to reduce casualties - insurers would/could already circulate it, as they are the ones risking picking up the bill.

Point taken about the disinterested but that goes with everything.

However most of these 'incidents' are accidents, by this I mean they don't set out to have the 'incident'.
It usually takes them by surprise and happens because they don't realise the risks or dangers in what they are doing, not because they are looking to do it on purpose!
So I feel 8 out of 10 would read it.

Insurance is not a legal requirement for boats, so no point sending it out with the papers because again the 'disinterested' won't have insurance!
So would never see it

[boristhebold]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Should be required reading for all small high powered craft owners. The explanation of how a "hook" occurs is clear & concise.

I agree Pikey Dave, im just doing my Yacht Master Theory night school course and last night we were learning about stability of craft and the various factors.

I think the report highlights a great many areas that people can learn from, not only boat owners but boat builders and associated builders of throttles etc. For me I can see why the accident happened (human error) but there were also a number of contributing factors. Kind of a 'perfect storm' type of event. I am wondering apart from us who have an interest in improving our skills and knowledge whether the report will have any effect at all on the general boating public ?

Yes should be requirred reading.

[Ribandmotorhome]

Originally Posted by boristhebold

I agree Pikey Dave, im just doing my Yacht Master Theory night school course and last night we were learning about stability of craft and the various factors.

I think the report highlights a great many areas that people can learn from, not only boat owners but boat builders and associated builders of throttles etc. For me I can see why the accident happened (human error) but there were also a number of contributing factors. Kind of a 'perfect storm' type of event. I am wondering apart from us who have an interest in improving our skills and knowledge whether the report will have any effect at all on the general boating public ?

Yes should be requirred reading.

I'm sad to say I don't think it will have much effect.
I didn't know till this thread started and I have spoke to a couple of boating friends, with fishing boats and they didn't know it was published either.

I will be telling everyone to get the word about!!

[Ribandmotorhome]

Originally Posted by Ian M

I'm on the RYA mailing list, and today noticed a "Safety Advisory Notice 01/2014", which is a first, and aimed at the leisure user. Makes oblique mention to this sad incident.
Doh, just seen SPR thread

I will look at that. Thanks for the info

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Ribandmotorhome

If the safe practice leaflets had pictures of dead cut up bodies and explain the risks and how it happened would have some effect though.

I would rather that than it leading to licensing and pricing people out of having a boat in the first place.

Thankfully it's rare compared to the amount of people afloat though.

Originally Posted by Ribandmotorhome

I'm sad to say I don't think it will have much effect.
I didn't know till this thread started and I have spoke to a couple of boating friends, with fishing boats and they didn't know it was published either.

I will be telling everyone to get the word about!!

So reading a report of an actual incident where people died, including an 8yr old, would have little effect, whereas a load of bumf would Make your mind up Squire