Milly accident report published

[Ian M]

Originally Posted by Mollers

The 8m/300hp are actually just numbers. 4m/40hp could just as easily result in a tragic result if poorly handled.

Yes, seen it, and just as fatal.

[Nos4r2]

You'll find the missing posts here:-

http://www.rib.net/forum/f8/high-tec...ion-55292.html

[cptsideways]

The handling tests were obviously thorough, showing how the excessive lean angle lead to the hook, which was pretty violent (measured at 1.3g) so anybody not belted in would have been thrown out.

Nasty but predictable outcome sadly

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by kerny

Do you think that's because the vast majority of ribs are open as with other boats if it hooks or the helmsman gets knocked over the cabin or cuddy helps to stop the helmsman going overboard. So you would never know if one was worn or not.

Plus 1 - In my experience of racing many boats from Thundercats through Phantom 18's and RIBs it is the open RIBs that are often the ones ejecting their occupants, even with bucket style seating in a classic RIB with a console design, it's the high centre of gravity with nothing to stop you going over the side that'll get you every time, mind you I've also see a few hard boats eject passengers as well but that's racing which by definition is "on the edge of control".

[biffer]

I've also found that the tubes play a big part in getting you out the boat, where a lot of boat bank round a bend or just slide out of it the tubes keep the boat more upright, it's a bit like going round a bend on a Motorbyke without leaning over, they just dig in usually, do a very quick 90 degree turn and you out the side

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Cookee

........ mind you I've also see a few hard boats eject passengers .

Have been spat clean out of a Phantom 18 due to steering failure. The driver and I surfaced about 10ft apart. The guy who stayed in the boat, broke two ribs.

[biffer]

I got spat out of a rib, trouble was I still had the console in my hands and the kill cord still attached, I was a lot younger and found it bloody funny, thinking about it now, eek!

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by biffer

I got spat out of a rib, trouble was I still had the console in my hands and the kill cord still attached.

A Ferryman by any chance?

[willk]

Originally Posted by Mollers

A Ferryman by any chance?

Now now - it was the hull that split open like a wet cardboard box, not the console...

[biffer]

No it was some pile of crap that me and my brother cobbled together

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by biffer

...it was some pile of crap that me and my brother cobbled together

Sounds like a Ferryman.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Mollers

Have been spat clean out of a Phantom 18 due to steering failure. The driver and I surfaced about 10ft apart. The guy who stayed in the boat, broke two ribs.

I think equipment failure is a whole different story and will often result in a swim in any open boat if doing any speed at all.

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by Cookee

I think equipment failure is a whole different story and will often result in a swim in any open boat if doing any speed at all.

Yep agree Cookee, we got sent to help a 8 metre RIB about five years ago that had lost steering about 20-25knts and was on a straight course and in seconds turned very sharp and threw everyone (about six) into the water. All very shocked including a highly qualified helm, kill cord worked but hydraulics went

[Barrowboy]

It's entirely predictable that 'fall-out' from the MAIB report on the Milly tragedy should focus on the issue of wearing killcords (education/legislation/enforcement, etc) and whether, or not, a better solution can be found but one aspect of the accident that resonated with me and which has given me plenty of opportunity to reflect on my own behaviour since the Report was published, is the issue of Mr Gilligan 'interfering' with the helming of the boat.

As I understand it, his wife was helming and she was concerned that her slow and wide turn would take the boat too close to the beach so Mr Milligan, sensing that she was probably right, leaned across her taking the wheel in one hand and grasping the throttle with the other, presumably to give the engine a 'blip' of throttle and helm hard over to tighten the turn? It would appear that he either momentarily lost his balance or somehow inadvertendly gave it too much throttle, something very easily done on a 'fly-by-wire' throttle and this input is evidenced by the momentary overspeed recording on the engine telemetry.

This aspect of the accident got me thinking about the countless occasions when I've been a front seat passenger in my wife's car and she has made decisions that I've questioned or, worse still, I've offered unsolicited advice when it wasn't wanted such as: 'Come on love, you could get a bus through there' or, 'any chance of getting past this wagon'? You get the idea.

In a car, it's not possible for me to take over whilst she's driving and I wouldn't think of doing so but on a rib with a side-by-side seating arrangement I can imagine the temptation would be VERY strong on occasions.

I can easily picture a situation where I'd do exactly what Mr Milligan appears to have done and 'help' his wife make the turn - either to save potential embarrassment, save us running aground or simply in order to get the boat turned round sharpish.

Huge learning point here for me personally. My wife has an unblemished driving record over the past 20 years, driving roughly 30k miles each year and yes she is naturally far more cautious than me, whether it be driving the car, helming the narrowboat, shortening sail on the yacht or reducing speed on a RIB.

Whoever is helming the rib of course should be allowed to get on with it without any interference from anyone else, unless they're standing into immediate danger. If my missus wants to turn to port - a decision that to me seems a wholly cack-handed and long-winded direction to turn, she should be allowed to do so without my two-penworth or, even worse, my interference. If she wants to run at 17 knots rather than the 27 I might prefer, she should be allowed to (provided a tidal gate isn't closing on us of course!) In essence, I have to learn to keep my gob shut and let her go at her own pace, make her own informed choices and generally be less vocal.

You guys might be a lot more patient than me but the huge lesson from the tragic Milly accident for me personally is as outlined above.

[Chris Caton]

+1 Tony when Jayne occasionally get behind the wheel of our rib I often give "helpful" advice on making progress etc, but to be honest the scenery is much easier to enjoy at the more sedate speeds my much better half cruises at, and after all it's supposed to be for us both to enjoy, not just me

[teamplonker]

Originally Posted by Barrowboy

Mr Milligan, sensing that she was probably right, leaned across her taking the wheel in one hand and grasping the throttle with the other, presumably to give the engine a 'blip' of throttle and helm hard over to tighten the turn? .

Something I have done many times too my better half and my sons, but fortunately with no ill effect.
This just brings home how dangerous my interference could be.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Barrowboy

This aspect of the accident got me thinking about the countless occasions when I've been a front seat passenger in my wife's car and she has made decisions that I've questioned or, worse still, I've offered unsolicited advice when it wasn't wanted such as: 'Come on love, you could get a bus through there' or, 'any chance of getting past this wagon'? You get the idea. ...

...My wife has an unblemished driving record over the past 20 years, driving roughly 30k miles each year

She must be a very understanding woman... ...I'd be walking (or possibly crawling) home.

[Barrowboy]

Originally Posted by Poly

She must be a very understanding woman... ...I'd be walking (or possibly crawling) home.

Not sure whether the word 'understanding' is appropriate; tolerant, yes, mildly scornful but when she's collected me from the pub, or she's the nominated driver (again), a downright fiesty specimen to be honest.

These are usually silent journeys .

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by Poly

She must be a very understanding woman... ...I'd be walking (or possibly crawling) home.

With restricted 'rations' for some time.

[jumpinjack]

You might find this interesting:

RIB Milly trials - YouTube