Milly accident report published

[kerny]

Originally Posted by jumpinjack

You might find this interesting:

Good find and thanks for posting the video watching it has helped me to understand a lot more exactly what hooking is and how it is caused.

[lakelandterrier]

Very interesting - quite instructive - thanks

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by jumpinjack

You might find this interesting:

Having seen and experienced these events one maybe surprised how often it occurs with many makes. Whilst working I see many boats displaying these characteristics . Don't believe your boats won't do similar . The lesson is understand fast boat handling

[kerny]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

Having seen and experienced these events one maybe surprised how often it occurs with many makes. Whilst working I see many boats displaying these characteristics . Don't believe your boats won't do similar . The lesson is understand fast boat handling

Fast car driving can be exactly the same.

[Cookee]

Having raced and experienced a few "Hooks" myself they were at the very bottom on the scale of hooks, in fact I would argue that they weren't any where near violent enough to be considered a hook, especially considering the passenger was able to hold on with one arm raised.

The only thing of value in that video is that it is a good demonstration of when you should stop pushing the performance envelope of your boat and consider that a warning.

[steco1958]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Having raced and experienced a few "Hooks" myself they were at the very bottom on the scale of hooks, in fact I would argue that they weren't any where near violent enough to be considered a hook, especially considering the passenger was able to hold on with one arm raised.

The only thing of value in that video is that it is a good demonstration of when you should stop pushing the performance envelope of your boat and consider that a warning.

Cookee, In the era of H&S there is no way that the helm could or should put the boat and crew into the same situation as the original accident, all they were doing was a visual demo and attempting to explain their findings.

Steve

[PeterM]

What Cookee Said - that video doesn't look very violent at all .

Hard to say if you weren't expecting it or used to that sort of handling (at the ends of the perfomance envelope) if you'd end up over the side....

I'd imagine they did put the boat to exactly the same throttle / helm situation as the accident settings....

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by PeterM

I'd imagine they did put the boat to exactly the same throttle / helm situation as the accident settings....

No way that matched the report, they were pushing as far as it was safe to do and no further, you don't need much imagination to see how much worse it would have been under hard acceleration and more speed, no need for them to end up in the water for the sake of an investigation.

[two stroke mick]

This might seem like a daft question. What is the proper way to advoid such Hooking incidents? I assume ease up on the loud stick in turning or only in tight turns. Or the tighter the turn the less power you use.

[tonto]

Very thought provoking and sad report indeed.

There has been a lot discussed on here already with regards to kill cords, and training, and designs of boats, so I will not add too much more.

Most people will be aware of my thoughts on compulsory training and certification, however it does not immediately seem apparent if this would have prevented such an accident, maybe more emphasis on the dangers of hooking, and the importance of sitting the children in the stern might have made a difference, but we will never know.

Also the effect alcohol had will never be known, however there are those that say even small amounts impair judgment, but again i cannot draw any conclusions in this case. One of the past cases highlighted in the report did however say that one person who died was over the limit.

One of the most important lessons that is drummed into us from a very early stage in our careers however, which has not been been discussed, is the best way to avoid the vast majority of incidents, including this one, would have been for the passenger, or helm, to reduce speed, or even stop, then make the turn.

I would never normally interfere with the helm, but if I felt it necessary, reducing the speed (not suddenly however) is nearly always a safe maneouver, unless someone is following you right astern and close....

Slowing and stopping gives you more time to evaluate, and carry out any maneouver, and consequences are much less dramatic. Increasing the power in a turn decreases the turning circle, but shortens the time that you have to make decisions, and react.

A bit boring I know, but I would rather be boring and be alive along with my family, and be exciting and risk my family and others.

I know I work on big ships, but the same applies here, as well as ribs, if in doubt SLOW DOWN

Tonto

[jokaboat]

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

This might seem like a daft question. What is the proper way to advoid such Hooking incidents? I assume ease up on the loud stick in turning or only in tight turns. Or the tighter the turn the less power you use.

Don't drive like a prat?

[two stroke mick]

Jokaboat

Thanks for your thoughts. I dont know how I have managed to get this far in life without your pearls of wisdom.

TSM

[jokaboat]

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

Jokaboat

Thanks for your thoughts. I dont know how I have managed to get this far in life without your pearls of wisdom.

TSM

My pleasure

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

This might seem like a daft question. What is the proper way to advoid such Hooking incidents? I assume ease up on the loud stick in turning or only in tight turns. Or the tighter the turn the less power you use.

Hooking is no different to losing control of a car on a bend, it's a combination of too much speed, too tight a turn, lack of grip, poor surface conditions. Drive to the conditions, reduce speed, know your abilities, know your boat's capabilities etc. Hooking is predictable & avoidable.

[chris.moody]

They didn't seem to be pushing it very hard in that video, the hook appeared to be very gentle. But I guess MAIB don't want to publish videos showing a rib right on the limits in case people start copying what they are doing.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

They didn't seem to be pushing it very hard in that video, the hook appeared to be very gentle. But I guess MAIB don't want to publish videos showing a rib right on the limits in case people start copying what they are doing.

I agree, that was more of a controlled side slide, the kind of thing that an experienced, competent driver would execute on the errr........Top Gear test track Saying that, it probably felt a lot worse than it looked, in the same way that waves suddenly grow when you get out of the harbour

[A1an]

Originally Posted by chris.moody

They didn't seem to be pushing it very hard in that video, the hook appeared to be very gentle. But I guess MAIB don't want to publish videos showing a rib right on the limits in case people start copying what they are doing.

I suppose they aren't going to "replicate" an aggressive hook as they want to stay dry.

I think they gave a good demonstration of exactly what a "hook" is but with still being in control.

[C-NUMB]

Originally Posted by two stroke mick

This might seem like a daft question. What is the proper way to advoid such Hooking incidents? I assume ease up on the loud stick in turning or only in tight turns. Or the tighter the turn the less power you use.

Maybe not a direct answer to Your question, but i have understand that if trimmed up in high speed and approaching a high speed turn, the leg should be trimmed down during the turn.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by C-NUMB

Maybe not a direct answer to Your question, but i have understand that if trimmed up in high speed and approaching a high speed turn, the leg should be trimmed down during the turn.

Actually if you trim it in too much you will encourage the bow to dig in and hook the boat, if you suddenly lift off in the middle of a turn that can also induce a hook - stepped boats are even more likely to spin out/hook if you lift off - I have to say our race RIB and the 770 would always gently spin out and never hook so it is to do with design.

[moore288]

I have found the report and this thread really educational. The video was also interesting. Thanks to everyone for the really interesting posts. Being a novice compared to others on here I was surprised at the hook video. I am sure it is tame compared to others experiences but it seemed quite dramatic to me. I have never experienced that in my rib, in fact I don't think mine will do that? Would it be right that that if the tubes are closer to the waterline it is less likely to happen. Or is it just that I have a smaller and much less powerful engine? My boat would more skid out gently than bite in. (So far, fingers crossed )