Mob

[Brambles]

Here are a couple of points that came up for debate during my advanced course:

First even in moderate seas you may only be able to see the MOB 50% of the time because of the waves. So assuming you were travelling at 30 knts when the person went over (and you may not notice they have gone for a while) - do you know how to use the recognised search methods to find them?

Second, if you have inexperienced crew on board and you are the MOB - would you really want a novice to take over the helm and bear down on you with the engine running?

In both cases at which point would someone be expected to get on the VHF & call for help?

Discuss!

[Simon B]

It isnt just men over board, we have women leaping off the boat on a regular basis. For rescuing casualties that have been vertical in the water for some time I have often wndered whether as a club we should get one of the jason craddle type rescue nets.

The phenomena of blood draining when people are lifted has a proper name but I cant remember it.

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by Simon B

It isnt just men over board, we have women leaping off the boat on a regular basis. For rescuing casualties that have been vertical in the water for some time I have often wndered whether as a club we should get one of the jason craddle type rescue nets.

The phenomena of blood draining when people are lifted has a proper name but I cant remember it.

Hydrostatic squeeze when in the water causing post immersion collapse when lifted out
Helicopters use a double strop now for this developed I think over in the USA or Canada.

Rescue nets not used by lifeguards get them out and then get them in
But they are operating close to beach and near AED and O2 so differs to a diving operation in relation to how close shore side rescue facilities and Paramedics

[AndrewH]

Just my 0.02p worth. When I did my RYA safety boat cert we spent most of a weekend pulling people out the water, as well as the various bits of kit that they were carrying. Very worth while too.

One point that really struck home was that if the MOB is unable to use their legs (and thus can't help you) it is much easier to get them out of the water back to the boat than if they're facing forwards. However watch their back as you pull them over. On the point of spinal injuries I also learned a really good point. You can alway deflate some of the air from one chamber of the rib to get someone with a suspected spinal injury in MUCH easier - flat in across the water rather than up and over the toob.

I've only had to do a water recovery once for real. Two kids in black inflatable rings , managed to get themselves caught in a rip tide and were being sucked towards the main shipping channel approach to Poole harbour as one of the Condor's was coming in. Their father (stood on the beach) was oblivious to the danger, and it took me to point it out to him. Even then he suggested that the boys could swim back in - fat lot of good that was doing them! My wife and I stowed anchor, launched and pulled them out of the water - just in in time to as Condor was only about 300 yds from us by the time we got the second lad on board.

Fortunately all the safety boat training kicked in and the recovery was simple and uneventful, but why to people insist on letting their kids use those "accident waiting to happen" inflatables. It doesn't seem to matter how many kids get into difficulty, some parents just won't learn . I can assure you that I had a few choice words for the (very grateful) boys father once we'd got them safely back to shore.

Andrew

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by Brambles

Second, if you have inexperienced crew on board and you are the MOB - would you really want a novice to take over the helm and bear down on you with the engine running?

If I were Helming I would have the Kill cord attached so hopefully the RIB wouldn't stop too far. If I were letting a novice have a go at helming, I would still have the kill cord attached.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Simon B

The phenomena of blood draining when people are lifted has a proper name but I cant remember it.

Yet it doesn't happen to divers, perhaps the act of actually doing something underwater keeps the blood flowing to were its supposed to be during a long dive.

Pete

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

I was going to comment on your first post, but this one'll do quite nicely.

I took a look at the orange netting for just this purpose. I found it to be a) not "tall" enough (as it's supposed to be rigged), b) nowhere near strong enough (though that's a guess), c) tough to join together to form a big enough piece of netting.

I think a coarser weave nylon net would do the trick (as the net in Stoo's post demonstrates, though I'd like it a bit tighter than what they've got.)

I mostly dive off my boat, quite often solo, so the rig has to be manageable by two people minimum (I assume that even if I'm solo, the incapacitated divers buddy will be there.)

Worst case would be to have to recover one unconscious person while solo; in that case, I would figure on getting them attached to the boat, head clear of the water, and scream for help on the VHF.

jky

What I thought of doing was rigging up something like a stretcher with 2 aluminium poles cable tied to the netting. To get someone into the boat you stand on 1 of the poles - pass a rope through the other pole - let the victim float into the net and then roll them in.

The netting/mesh I have seen is more than strong enough.

[whiteminiman]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Yet it doesn't happen to divers, perhaps the act of actually doing something underwater keeps the blood flowing to were its supposed to be during a long dive.

Pete

Everything you could ever want to know about Hydrostatic Squeeze and Circum-Rescue Collapse is contained in this book. I highly recommend it, very interested and despite its relatively technical content it is very well written and understandable.

Cheers, WMM

[DM]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Yet it doesn't happen to divers

I always knew Divers were a strange bunch.

Post Immersion Collapse mainly occurs in hypothermic casualties. The hypothermia interferes with the bodies regulatory/compensatory systems which control blood pressure.

When the casualty is immersed, water pressure on the lower limbs maintains an adequate BP. When that pressure is removed, BP drops rapidly causing clinical shock which leads to heart attack. Gravity also has a marked effect on blood distribution throughout the body which is why PIC was common during helicopter winch rescues.

The simple treatment is to lay the casualty flat with the head towards the stern of the boat and raise the legs above chest height.

DM

[codprawn]

Haven't you used a similar system as the netting to get people back on board?

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Simon B

It isnt just men over board, we have women leaping off the boat on a regular basis.

Maybe you should work on your people skills...


jky

[Aging Youth]

Hi Andy,

A couple of summers ago I had the missfourtune to lose a crew member over the side whilst out with fellow ribsters on a cruise to Yarmouth.

We were travelling in a group if I remember rightly Mr Halliday was behind me. I got caught out by wash comming in from both sides of the boat at the same time. First lot of wash was from the boat ahead of me on my starboard side. Secound was from the Gin palace comming at me head on, on my port side. My boat passed through the wake but fell sideways into the trough and one crew member who shall remain nameless was uncermoniously dumped over the Port side.

My training kicked in immediatley the helm was turning as he fell out, with shouts of Man Overboard comming from the crew. I was more concerned from the following boats not seeing him in the water, but Mr Halliday was quick on the helm and missed him.

Recovery was assisted with Kathryn's help and we used the bouyancy of his now fully inflated lifejacket to bounce him into the boat.

The beer in the bar that followed tasted real good plus a new gas cylinder for Mike's Lifejacket

When it happens for your training will kick in

Cheers

[NautiAndNice]

On this topic - what are peoples' opinions regarding transmitting a Mayday call in the event of MOB from a RIB? Don't see any mention of it so far in this thread....

Any powerboat training that I've done has always stressed that a Mayday should be issued asap - and later cancelled if a successful recovery is achieved without other assistance.

However, I had a bit of a heated debate with my sailing instructor/examiner recently - when she laughed at the very thought of Mayday for MOB.

Opinions???

[Poly]

Originally Posted by NautiAndNice

On this topic - what are peoples' opinions regarding transmitting a Mayday call in the event of MOB from a RIB? Don't see any mention of it so far in this thread....

Any powerboat training that I've done has always stressed that a Mayday should be issued asap - and later cancelled if a successful recovery is achieved without other assistance.

However, I had a bit of a heated debate with my sailing instructor/examiner recently - when she laughed at the very thought of Mayday for MOB.

Opinions???

The suggestion on my PB2 course was if you can hit the red dsc button on way back to casualty without slowing down then do so (if another person still on board they can do it). If you fail to pick up on first attempt then MAYDAY regardless of how confident you are of getting them next time. All seemed quite logical.

IMHO on a sailing boat there is plenty of time for a mayday on the way back to casualty and consideraby greater chance of not getting the pick up right etc - and I would always put in a Mayday asap.

As you say, easier to cancel a mayday after successful pickup than to wind the clock back for those all important minutes.

[whiteminiman]

Originally Posted by NautiAndNice

However, I had a bit of a heated debate with my sailing instructor/examiner recently - when she laughed at the very thought of Mayday for MOB.

Opinions???

In order to qualify as a distress situation :- a vessel, vehicle, aircraft or person must be in grave and imminent danger.

How is a Man Overboard NOT in grave and imminent danger?

Also, if you have a DSC radio... the options when you send a DSC Distress alert are:

Undesignated
Fire or explosion
Flooding
Collision
Grounding
Listing
Sinking
Disabled and adrift
Abandoning ship
Piracy
MAN OVERBOARD

If it's on the DSC Distress list... then that might be a bit of a clue to say that it is indeed a distress situation.

Cheers, WMM

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by whiteminiman

In order to qualify as a distress situation :- a vessel, vehicle, aircraft or person must be in grave and imminent danger.

How is a Man Overboard NOT in grave and imminent danger?


Cheers, WMM

Well most divers tend to be in the water - and it's pretty hard to wakeboard without jumping out of the boat......

So much depends on the conditions - if I had a pax fall overboard on a nice hot summers day when it's flat calm i don't think a call to the coastguard would be justified - on a freezing Feb night with a force 6 it would be stupid not to!!!

[NautiAndNice]

Originally Posted by whiteminiman

How is a Man Overboard NOT in grave and imminent danger?

Cheers, WMM

Totally agree with you. This was my argument.
She was having none of it though. (Bear in mind here that she is an RYA accredited Yachtmaster Instructor!)

She reckoned the situation for issuing a Mayday may change if there had been a "few" failed attempts at picking up the casualty ... (obv no thought here for the poor bugger chilling his bones in the water...)

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by codprawn

So much depends on the conditions - if I had a pax fall overboard on a nice hot summers day when it's flat calm i don't think a call to the coastguard would be justified - on a freezing Feb night with a force 6 it would be stupid not to!!!

Totally agree

Evaluate the situation... if all is under control, then get on with the job in hand. If there are complications developing, re-evaluate quickly and make the call before things get worse.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by NautiAndNice

On this topic - what are peoples' opinions regarding transmitting a Mayday call in the event of MOB from a RIB? Don't see any mention of it so far in this thread....

Any powerboat training that I've done has always stressed that a Mayday should be issued asap - and later cancelled if a successful recovery is achieved without other assistance.

However, I had a bit of a heated debate with my sailing instructor/examiner recently - when she laughed at the very thought of Mayday for MOB.

Opinions???

Have you done a VHF Course? If so, what was the opinion of your VHF Instructor?

[whiteminiman]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Well most divers tend to be in the water - and it's pretty hard to wakeboard without jumping out of the boat......

I was waiting for someone to start

A wakeboarder is hardly a MOB? Surely a MOB by definition doesn't want to be in the water?

WMM