Need Advise Please

[Paul Mc Nulty]

Hi,I just bought a 5.5M HUMBER destroyer with a 75hp 4 stroke.Its a nice boat.Although there are some problems which I need to have sorted.
First of all the boat was sold new to me then I discover scratches to the hull from beaching.Then after they took out the second seat there was a gelcoat filler put on the screw holes.The thing is sikaflex was put under the filler so as you might expect it just came off.I asked them before I bought it was here any scratches and I was told there wasnt.I expected it to be in pristine condition,Although I knew it had been on the water already I still thought it was new.I may be a fool in accepting this I don'nt know.Can anyone tell me the true meaning of new in the boating sales world ?

I also found that the sealing job around the console was sloppy although it seems that the black sikaflex to the back is doing its job -- seems

Then to top it off last night I was looking through the navman fuel tranducer manual.I read that the tranducer must be installed after the fuel filter/water separator and it is before.This can lead to damage and inaccurate readings.

I rang the boat sales today and all I told them my problem and he refused to send me another one. This means that the warrent is void because it was installed wrong and I'd be putting my life in danger If I were to use it.

I was told today when I asked for a replacemen that I did'nt know anything about boats,Well that may to true but I'm good to judge good and bad workmanship. and I know a cowboy a mile off

All in all they did'nt seem very PROFESSIONAL. if you know what I mean.

I have a 3 month warrenty on the engine and 5 years on the boat.So I guess I'd better get it checked out otherwise me being stupid not knowing anything about boats may find another hidden surpise.

I really like the boat.I thought it would be ready to use and that what really pisses me off and the fact that I have to spend more money on it.I was told it would be ready to use.

I will let you all know how I have been treated and what comes of it.
This is purely my experience of what happened and it is the truth and cannot be deined.

Thanks

Paul

[codprawn]

it is common sense to put the fuel flow transducer AFTER the filters as it has a small orrifice and will block easily. Having said that it isn't a major problem and you shouldn't need a new one unless it's already clogged. As to putting your life in danger i think that's a bit overdramatic. They have been know to block no matter where they are placed so you should carry an emergency bit of pipe so that if the fuel to the engine is blocked you can remove the transducer.

Can't comment on the scratches on the hull without seeing them first.

BTW if your Navman is anything like mine expect it to pack up when it gets wet. Try to make a flip up cover to go over it.

[Jono]

Paul,

A couple of things are somewhat confusing in your post. Could you clarify? You say that the boat was sold to you as “new”. You then say that you knew that the boat had been on the water but you thought it was still “new”. It’s pretty usual for boats to be water "trialed" before handing over to a customer. Are the scratches significant or not? Could they have occurred during the pre-hand over trials? Beaching or putting on a trailer?
Who took the seats out and why? Did the boat have them in when you saw it or “as advertised” and were they taken out at your request? It sounds like the holes were filled with Sika then someone changed their mind and decided to use filler. Get the holes cleaned out, keyed then re-apply filler. Easy enough job.

Originally Posted by Paul Mc Nulty

I also found that the sealing job around the console was sloppy although it seems that the black sikaflex to the back is doing its job -- seems

Not quite sure I fully understand this. Got any picture of the offending work?

I’m not convinced that you’d be “putting your life in danger” with the transducer placed before the filter instead of after it. If this has damaged the unit then I would expect your boat supplier to exchange this without quibble. Have you placed it in the correct place now and does it function properly?

A piece of advice from someone who’s been on both ends of these sort of difficulties, if I may be so bold? A little less confrontational in your postings may elicit a more favourable response.

[BruceB]

I don't understand most of the complaints either, they are not particularly clear.
My first thought on reading it was that the author was Polish and although he was much better at English than my Polish it was still was hard to understand.
Then I thought they are not many Poles called McNulty...............

[Poly]

I am stuggling to understand - did you buy this boat (as in hand over money) without seeing it? otherwise why would you accept the boat and hand over money if there are obvious defects you didn't expect?

Was the boat an ex-demonstrator - that is not the same as new.

I have never known any reasonable business to object to havinga civil discussion about a problem. You might not get the outcome you wanted but if you have a civil conversation they should have a civil response.

if I bought a boat with serious hidden faults (and I don't know if these are actually serious) then I would seriously consider rejecting the boat [I assume ireland has similar sale of goods legislation to the UK] as not being fit for purpose or as advertised. the supplier may be entitled to make good any faults or may be required to give you your money back (depending on the nature of the problem, the nature of the contract, and Irish law).

I can't imagine buying a new boat from someone I wouldn't trust to fix any minor issues I had (assuming I am being reasonable). If a humber dealer is being genuinely unreasonable then I would have a chat to humber. Your contract is presumably with the dealer not humber but their customer service manager (or dealership manager) would I am sure be keen to ensure their brand is not damaged by either a poorly finished boat or a dodgy dealer.

Finally if you have a genuine complaint and can't sort it out - is the dealer a member of a trade body like BMIF? (you did check before handing them a big wodge of cash didn't you?) they will probably have some sort of disputes/arbitration scheme which you can use to sort out your dispute.

[Paul Mc Nulty]

I do not know what they decided to do with the filler thats how I got the boat. I did know the boat had a extra seat which was taken out.It seems the sikaflex shrinks when it cures leaving gaps around the flange its not really the biggest of problems I do hope that the black sikaflex was done correctly covering all the screws as I do not want any rot in the plywood deck underneat

The boat was advertised as new and Its on the invoice. The boat has been used. You are right I'm new to boating and no I did'nt check it out before I bought it because I thought it was new, this doesnt change my rights. The way the understood it was that the boat was taken out a few times but was still new, I'm wasnt sure if that was common or not but I did not mind because I knew that there wasnt any scratches on it or anything after been told this. I think now that was slightly used or ex demo.It should'nt have been sold as new.

However Its not that I really minded that it was taken out as I knew this.
Its the scratches,the sealent, and the fuel flow transducer
this means a lot more money to spend it might cost a few hundred euros to get a boat detailer to fill them in and leave it cure for 24 hr or so. I have to provide him with the correct matching gelcoat which costs money to send and buy.Sikaflex is 16 euros a tube and the transducer costs £88 and that could be damaged already or fail.

I contacted him and asked for the right matching gelcoat. I still don'nt know if he's going to send the right stuff as its expensive to ship.That would have been a small compromise as naturaly I do not want to have to return the boat which would also cost money also I know this and so does he but regardless I still think It should be sorted out for me.Even if the right gelcoat was sent I could do it myself I think and the transducer I can install it correctly and test it. I will be getting a reserve gauge anyway but if it goes I will send it back.

What it really comes down to now is trying to work something out I hope hes down for it. I want to be reasonable but everytime I see those scratches it just pisses me off . However I do like the boat its just that the condition of the boat was misleading to be perfectly honest I have no problem other than that and I'd like to sort out my boat now rather than later.

[codprawn]

How bad are the scratches? just a bit of grit on the rollers can cause it. Will usually polish out with a bit of wet and dry.

BTW don't you mean advice???

[BruceB]

Thats a bit clearer although it still leaves some important questions unanswered.
I would expect a new boat to be that, new and unused and usually built to your spec. What is sounds like is that you have a demo boat which, if you think along car lines, would be heavily discounted from the new price due to the abuse and would not be perfect.
It really depends on what you paid compared to the "new" price whether you have a complaint or not.
The fact that seats have been taken out means the boat is not "new" in my sense of the word as it means the hull was built to someones elses spec.
The transducer I suspect is just a fitment issue, what stopping you swopping them around with the cost of a metre or so of new fuel line? The "I am gonna die" because of it is a bit melodramatic to say the least.
If you got the boat much cheaper than new then I fail to see what the problem is, check the Humber site and add up to see what the new version costs and compare. If you paid full whack and were lied to that is a different story.
Incidentally I notice the outboard only has 3 months warranty, does that mean secondhand? as most outboards new have much longer warranties than this?

[ciaranp]

did you buy the boat somewhere in Ireland or the uk?
How much did that package roughly set you back?

[alystra]

'as new' is not the same as 'new'. 'as new' means, to my mind, that it's almost as good as new, but it's been used.

Was this boat bought from Humber? If so, I find it incredible that they would have treated you like they seem to have done. Admittedly, my experience is eight years out of date, but I found them very helpful and honest.

I think there's more to this than meets the eye.

[Ian M]

I think that I know how you feel, I have had issues with a new 'toy' that I recently bought, only in my case it was a car. I felt a little sick that I had not spotted the problems, and that my lovely new (ish) motor was not in as great a condition as I had supposed. In my case the solution to most of the ills has been a very comprehensive manufacturers warranty (thanks Audi!). You state that there is a warranty on your toy; do as others have suggested and go back to the supplier and state your problems in reasonable manner - worked for me.
A friend put my problems into perspective for me; did I get it at a good price, if so sort the problems and be satisfied that I have still got a good car at a good price. In my case I didn't need to, with the right approach you may not need to either

[Poly]

I think until you post some pics so people can judge for themselves if the condition is really not in "as new" condition, everyone here is going to treat you as a bit of a drama queen.

Some hard facts would probably also help. Like how much did you pay (or what discount did you get from the list price/advertised price). When did you buy the boat. When (and how) did you go back to the dealer with your concerns. How far away is the dealer (i.e. is it practical to take the boat to show him).

• Now you don't mind the boat had been out on the water a few times. (How many hours are on the engine? Was it new - as I would have expected more than 3 months warranty).
• You aren't worried about the sikaflex. and its only €16 for a tube - which is probably about 30 minutes of fuel.
• The scratches are probably very minor as otherwise you would have spotted (and questioned them) when you collected it. If they matter to you they will polish out. In reality you will pick up some more yourself in the next year (esp if you are new to boats).
• The seat was removed - which you knew. They made a cock up of it. It is easy fixed - and probably doesn't need a "professional". But I think this is probably your only serious complaint - if you are local I am sure they would fix it for you if you ask/suggest politely. I suspect however as it may need to be done overnight - this maybe doesn't suit you.
• The fuel flow sensor is almost certainly not damaged. If it is faulty I am sure the dealer will replace it. So thats £88 you don't need to spend.

Its not acceptable to pay for a new boat and get a damaged one.

It is also not acceptable for someone to accept a boat and then complain later about very minor niggles (which were obvious at collection) unless some sort of "snagging" period has been agreed upfront. If you got a "bargain" this probably applies even more.

So now that you are in this situation - what would you like/expect the builder to do?

Finally you are about to discover that boat ownership can be bloody expensive. As a percentage of the first years running costs this work will be minor. As a percentage of the cost of the boat it will also be minor.

[Nos4r2]

Starting at the beginning (and it's not meant to sound confrontational so don't please take it the wrong way).

If you want to buy a boat that's never been afloat then build it yourself from the bare hull. Any good dealer will properly sea trial a new boat to check for problems. I'd be more worried if it hadn't been afloat as you'd be left to find any defects yourself.

The fuel computer isn't really an issue. Talk to the dealer (nicely) and ask him if he'll honour the warranty if you move the transducer to the right place.

You haven't said the price you paid for the boat (and I haven't seen it) so can't comment on the scratches/seat removal-but there's no way you've got a new engine on there if it's only got 3 months warranty.

I also suspect that I know who supplied the boat-and he's a member on this forum so if I'm right all credit to him for not getting into a public argument!

[Paul Mc Nulty]

The engine is second hand with 3 months warrenty. Its 2006 I had not had any time to bring it out yet and I'm waiting for my powerboat level 2. I'd be worried about damaging the boat as you said. I think I had the right to be worried about the fuel flow transducer and I think I had the right to complain about the chips and scratches
I just wanted the factory repair kit gelcoat paste it wasnt too much to ask for. I was just concerned about my boat. The boat was sold to me and I did'nt know about the scratches and they are too deep to be from trailing it was from beaching.They are at the front of the hull where it sloops down and there are two other ones on the sides of the hull these were caused by the rocking side by side motion on something sharp like rocks on a beach, These are positioned so because the trailer is protecting them there is no way it could have happened in delivery. They are all deeper than a fingernail and so can not be polished out they are not swirls marks or anything they are proper deep. I've bought rubbing compounds and a rotary buffer and all the stuff I need just need for the gelcoat and finish. I'd say I'm after spending 500 euros on it already,Between resin to fill the holes,wet or dry sandpaper,syringes for the holes and an electric blanket to cure it the list goes on and on. Good thing is that I'll have it if I do anything to boat myself or if I buy another boat which has been used I will have everything a professional boat shop has almost.

Yeah the scratches are minor from one perspective but thats not the point and yeah the holes may seem easy to fill but again ? and the transducer well that easy to fix. But all of this should have been done for me before I bought it and just maybe there could have been less quivel when I rang trying to get some joy .

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Paul Mc Nulty

The engine is second hand with 3 months warrenty. Its 2006 I had not had any time to bring it out yet and I'm waiting for my powerboat level 2. I'd be worried about damaging the boat as you said. I think I had the right to be worried about the fuel flow transducer and I think I had the right to complain about the chips and scratches
I just wanted the factory repair kit gelcoat paste it wasnt too much to ask for. I was just concerned about my boat. The boat was sold to me and I did'nt know about the scratches and they are too deep to be from trailing it was from beaching.They are at the front of the hull where it sloops down and there are two other ones on the sides of the hull these were caused by the rocking side by side motion on something sharp like rocks on a beach, These are positioned so because the trailer is protecting them there is no way it could have happened in delivery. They are all deeper than a fingernail and so can not be polished out they are not swirls marks or anything they are proper deep. I've bought rubbing compounds and a rotary buffer and all the stuff I need just need for the gelcoat and finish. I'd say I'm after spending 500 euros on it already,Between resin to fill the holes,wet or dry sandpaper,syringes for the holes and an electric blanket to cure it the list goes on and on. Good thing is that I'll have it if I do anything to boat myself or if I buy another boat which has been used I will have everything a professional boat shop has almost.

Yeah the scratches are minor from one perspective but thats not the point and yeah the holes may seem easy to fill but again ? and the transducer well that easy to fix. But all of this should have been done for me before I bought it and just maybe there could have been less quivel when I rang trying to get some joy .

To be very blunt-and I'll reiterate that I'm in no way connected to the dealer-but I DO have the advert for your boat in front of me...

You paid £5000 less than the price of that boat when new-and you knew it had been used. You got a VERY good deal on it-and you'd probably get more than you paid for it were you to sell it. If you wanted a new boat, pay the price for a new boat-and don't buy a boat without looking at it first!

Also, you've been offered the option of returning the boat to the dealer so they can put the issues right as a good will gesture.I'd call that excellent customer service.

Why are you complaining?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Paul Mc Nulty

I'd say I'm after spending 500 euros on it already

well that was probably a bit dumb - I suspect a local boat yard would probably have tidied it up for £100.

[BruceB]

How about posting the ad with identification removed if necessary?
I suspect I know who it may be if it is somebody that is on here although the chances are I am completely wrong and it is unfair to probaby think it is them anyway! :-)
If the ad is that black and white it will clear up the vague complaints that have bee coming across. It really all comes down to price and description at the end of the day..................

[yorfuoj]

I agree with Polwart and Nos statements, it seems that you are trying to get a bit more off your bargain.

I would have fixed the scratches for $100 ...
You said you know nothing, but you bought all the expensive equipment and items to do it yourself ... ok, well.
Take care to do it well, that is better than the original you bought, otherwise you should sink. Breath ...!

But I agree on one point : if the scratches were deep enough to go down (or up ...) to the glassfiber, it is wise to close them carefully. Grind slightly with a Dremel, put resin with a small brush, leave it dry until sticky then add gelcoat (just enough, no more) and close with adhesive tape to get a bright surface.

Fuel transducer : cut the fuel line BEFORE the transducer, and add a small and cheap in-line filter, just to avoid any debris to clog the transducer.

[Downhilldai]

Just a thought. Maybe you could try chopping it in against this:
http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23085

[ADS]

I think I can guess the supplier too.
I have to agree with NOS, it was £5k below list ex demo, and you probably should have looked at it. Fuel tranducer is a minor issue.
Incidently buying a new rib is not like buying a new car there are always going to be a few little niggles even on a top end Scorp, its how the manufacturer deals with and resolves is what counts.
I have been involved in a couple of brand new rib purchases and in both cases the rib in question was seatrialled by the supplying dealer.