never ever ever fit wing-nuts to battery terminals

[M.Thornton]

When we took our recently acquired Vipermax Black Hawk on the cruise in company round Anglesey last month the 250 e-tec stopped just off south-stack,
not the best of places in a bit of a blow. It was then that we discovered that the
battery terminals were fitted with wing nuts (I know we should have checked earlier!) The wing nuts had worked loose and the battery was flat.We managed to restart with a booster and carry on. When we returned home we discovered that the engine would not charge so we booked the boat in to the main agent.
"You've fried the brain"said Mr.main agent "o dear" said I that doesn't sound cheap. "your in luck" said Mr main agent with a feral gleam in his eye "the've
come down now the are only £970,pause, plus fitting ,pause, plus VAT. Lucky me said I. Mr main agent then had to get authority from Evinrude to transfer
data from the old EMM unit to the new one then! Is it me or is the whole automotive industry getting far to complicated (it took my mate a week to find
the battery in his new Audi!) Anyway rant over just hope it saves somebody else a few bob. I am now the proud owner of the most expensive wing nuts in the UK (open to offers)

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by M.Thornton

When we took our recently acquired Vipermax Black Hawk on the cruise in company round Anglesey last month the 250 e-tec stopped just off south-stack,
not the best of places in a bit of a blow. It was then that we discovered that the
battery terminals were fitted with wing nuts (I know we should have checked earlier!) The wing nuts had worked loose and the battery was flat.We managed to restart with a booster and carry on. When we returned home we discovered that the engine would not charge so we booked the boat in to the main agent.
"You've fried the brain"said Mr.main agent "o dear" said I that doesn't sound cheap. "your in luck" said Mr main agent with a feral gleam in his eye "the've
come down now the are only £970,pause, plus fitting ,pause, plus VAT. Lucky me said I. Mr main agent then had to get authority from Evinrude to transfer
data from the old EMM unit to the new one then! Is it me or is the whole automotive industry getting far to complicated (it took my mate a week to find
the battery in his new Audi!) Anyway rant over just hope it saves somebody else a few bob. I am now the proud owner of the most expensive wing nuts in the UK (open to offers)

I went to replace the battery in my BMW a month ago, and discovered that if it wasnt 'exactly' the same battery with correct output .. the car would have to be re coded to 'accept' it, so that it didnt overcharge it madness I tell you

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by M.Thornton

When we took our recently acquired Vipermax Black Hawk on the cruise in company round Anglesey last month the 250 e-tec stopped just off south-stack,
not the best of places in a bit of a blow. It was then that we discovered that the
battery terminals were fitted with wing nuts (I know we should have checked earlier!) The wing nuts had worked loose and the battery was flat.We managed to restart with a booster and carry on. When we returned home we discovered that the engine would not charge so we booked the boat in to the main agent.
"You've fried the brain"said Mr.main agent "o dear" said I that doesn't sound cheap. "your in luck" said Mr main agent with a feral gleam in his eye "the've
come down now the are only £970,pause, plus fitting ,pause, plus VAT. Lucky me said I. Mr main agent then had to get authority from Evinrude to transfer
data from the old EMM unit to the new one then! Is it me or is the whole automotive industry getting far to complicated (it took my mate a week to find
the battery in his new Audi!) Anyway rant over just hope it saves somebody else a few bob. I am now the proud owner of the most expensive wing nuts in the UK (open to offers)

One of the first things in the Etec rigging manual is a caution against using wingnuts. Also if you have any battery isolators make sure that they are in perfect condition & stay that way. NEVER open or close a battery isolator with the engine running.
PS that bit about the main agent having to get permission to transfer the EMM data, take it with a pinch of salt, he (the agent)is talking bollix. You can DIY with the software, I know
How much did he charge you labour to swap the EMM, it's a half hour job.

[biffer]

I can't understand the caution of wing nuts, it's just a nut with wings, if its got loose the ordinary nut would have done the same, I would think proper locking washers

[Pikey Dave]

Thing about wing nuts is they're tightened by hand ( I know you can get pliers on 'em & give 'em a tweak but joe public sees wing nut & just hand tightens it) so eventually they come loose + because they aren't "proper" tightened, the contact between the clamp & battery post can be iffy. I use M6 stainless bolts with Nylocs. IMHO there's a flaw in the Etec, in that the charging circuit is inside the EMM, so if the rectifier pack goes, the EMM is scrap. You end up binning a grands worth of computer for a 10 bob rectifier. The EMM is a sealed un-serviceable unit, so you can't repair them, allegedly

[biffer]

Good lock washers, there was some written stuff about nylock nuts, they come slightly loose, was written by a washer supplier but did make sense, once you've used a nylock once it becomes a nut with a plastic washer in it

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by biffer

Good lock washers, there was some written stuff about nylock nuts, they come slightly loose, was written by a washer supplier but did make sense, once you've used a nylock once it becomes a nut with a plastic washer in it

Yup, agreed,they are "one shot". Good lock washers are fine, just don't use 'em with wing nuts. If you need to use a tool to nip up the wing nut, it negates the point of having a wing nut in the first place, might as well just use conventional fastners & do a proper job. Wing nuts do fail As M.Thornton found out.

[gotchiguy]

At least the etec can run without a battery unlike most other current models...

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by gotchiguy

At least the etec can run without a battery unlike most other current models...

So why did the e-tec in question stop when the Battery terminals came off ?

I'd rather my engine stop than take £1000 of damage....oh and stop at the same time for any reason.

Its boring really hearing the 'etecs are amazing unlike most other current models' lines again and again....

[lakelandterrier]

Originally Posted by PeterM

I'd rather my engine stop than take £1000 of damage....oh and stop at the same time for any reason.

Isn't that why they're all meant to have fantastic ECMS that will prevent overloads/ damage by putting the engine into "safe mode", but add to the cost of the engine. Methinks there's a flaw somewhere.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

IMHO there's a flaw in the Etec, in that the charging circuit is inside the EMM, so if the rectifier pack goes, the EMM is scrap. You end up binning a grands worth of computer for a 10 bob rectifier. The EMM is a sealed un-serviceable unit, so you can't repair them, allegedly

Originally Posted by PeterM

So why did the e-tec in question stop when the Battery terminals came off ?

I'd rather my engine stop than take £1000 of damage....oh and stop at the same time for any reason.

Dunno why it stopped, but the battery terminals coming off can't be blamed on the engine. What usually happens is that the terminals work loose & you get continual arcing, this would play havoc with any electricals, let alone be a fire risk

Originally Posted by lakelandterrier

Methinks there's a flaw somewhere.

See above

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by biffer

I can't understand the caution of wing nuts, it's just a nut with wings, if its got loose the ordinary nut would have done the same, I would think proper locking washers

Huge difference in torque .. as PD alluded .. think about it .. two fingers on a large nut against a 6 inch spanner in the same hand .. no contest

[biffer]

You can nip a wing nut up with fingers, screw driver, spanner, bit of a shackle, almost anything, can't do that with a nut

[Bigmuz7]

Whatever .. Sorry I made a big post but 'deleted' it for this cos I had to post 'something' in the space . I'm too tired to argue the toss

[biffer]

I'm not trying to argue with you, I've thought about what's been posted on this thread and I still can't understand this wing nut thing, if I was out on the water and somehow in the shit with batteries I would much rather have a wing nut that I could take off with a knife or anything I could jam between the wing and the thread than look for a specific spanner, you can't put a load of torque on the nut anyway because of what they are made of.
Your right though about arguing, it's too hot and I've only had 2 cuppa's

[Pikey Dave]

There you go 'nuff said

[M.Thornton]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Dunno why it stopped, but the battery terminals coming off can't be blamed on the engine. What usually happens is that the terminals work loose & you get continual arcing, this would play havoc with any electricals, let alone be a fire risk


See above

Don't know why it stopped,but stopped it did we thought at first that it was a fuel problem because the engine spluttered and died then when we tried to raise the leg we realised that we had no electrical power.Could it have been the
fuel pump,does that need power? any way as soon as we connected the booster we were off and running,we didn't realise at the time that we had no charging facility
Mike T.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by M.Thornton

Don't know why it stopped,but stopped it did we thought at first that it was a fuel problem because the engine spluttered and died then when we tried to raise the leg we realised that we had no electrical power.Could it have been the
fuel pump,does that need power? any way as soon as we connected the booster we were off and running,we didn't realise at the time that we had no charging facility
Mike T.

It sounds like the charging circuit went early on, possibly on the previous outing even, which means you lost the 12v output from the emm, this supplies the high pressure fuel pump & the other 12v systems & charges the battery. The systems would have been running off the battery until it either a, went flat or b, the terminal came off, at that point you lost fuel pressure. Considering the conditions that day, you probably hit a wave & the bump was the final straw & the terminal let go. Etecs WILL run without a battery but only if the 12v output from the EMM is intact, which in this case it wasn't. Running without a battery is a bit of a moot point imho, because you have to start it without the battery, you can't start it on battery & then disconnect it, as it nukes the EMM, as you know There is a video somewhere of someone pull starting a 150, but I wouldn't want to try it on a 250 big block

[gotchiguy]

Originally Posted by M.Thornton

fuel pump,does that need power? .

No, the etec is the only current engine which needs no battery once started.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by gotchiguy

No, the etec is the only current engine which needs no battery once started.

Careful fella