New drink boating laws

[codprawn]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6749253.stm

The government just couldn't resist meddling could they?

The drink limit will apply to those "involved in the navigation of a vessel" longer than 7m (23ft) capable of speeds of 7 knots or more.

So in other words it is still possible for a drunken bum in a speed boat to do 70mph through the moorings - as long as it's 22ft long - if it's 23' then he is a danger to the public........

How do you define the 7kts? Many yachts are on the borderline. Surely it would make sense to make it "anyone drunk AND exceeding 7kts".

I really don't see why this is needed - fair enough for commercial but boats just aren't the same as cars. Even though 1 person may be in charge of a boat there are usually some other crew to help out.

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Surely it would make sense to make it "anyone drunk AND exceeding 7kts".

Errr... Ummmm... yes, and it does, sort of. The BBC report isn't very well written. See here for more info: http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speeches...lcoholmariners "section 80 should apply to those persons exercising a function in connection with the navigation of a vessel which is less than 7 metres in length and is not capable of a maximum speed of over 7 knots".
It's not law yet anyway, as the bizzarre "exemption" still appears to apply.

[havener]

Typical. Why make a law nice and simple when you can complicate it?

Drinking and boating either mix or don't mix, irrelevant of the size. Should I swap my Mitsubishi pickup for a Mini so I can get p1ssed and drive home safely then?

I'm all for banning drinking and boating totally (as it should be for drinking and driving), but this idea is just stupid.

Easiest law to understand would be no booze on any boat.

[Tims Osprey]

Another well thought out peace of government legislation that makes sense! NOT! i don't even wonder anymore about what kind of person brings out all these stupid laws, its clear now, a retard.

[wavelength]

far easier to prove beyond reasonable doubt "capable of 7 knots" than actually "doing 7knots or over". If that is all it applies to it is an opportunity missed- our jet skiers and other powerboat/rib users here will still get away with drinking in the waterside pub and then causing havoc. Shame for the yotties who want a glass or two of wine whilst tied up to their mooring-but in the real world is that going to be a problem-is anyone really going to start enforcing a law in those particular circumstances. After last weekend here with what would be the neighbours from hell and their kids causing mayhem and damage on and by the water I am all for anything that can be used to curtail their anti social behaviour before they kill someone-specially if its me!

[codprawn]

I am NOT in favour of banning drinking and boating - and remember I don't even drink!!!

Why should someone in say Wales or Scotland or Northumberland etc where it is pretty quiet not have a few drinks when they are boating.? Just because the Solent can resemble Piccadilly Circus doesn't mean that the rest of the country has the same problems.

It is possible to have a day out in other parts of the country and not even see another boat - the sea is a pretty big place so even if you are a bit over the limit who are you going to hurt?

Common sense needs to be applied but as usual it is sadly lacking!!!

[havener]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I am NOT in favour of banning drinking and boating - and remember I don't even drink!!!

Why should someone in say Wales or Scotland or Northumberland etc where it is pretty quiet not have a few drinks when they are boating.? Just because the Solent can resemble Piccadilly Circus doesn't mean that the rest of the country has the same problems.

So should drink driving be allowed on isolated roads then? Wherever you are, alcohol impairs thought and that can lead to accidents...

It is possible to have a day out in other parts of the country and not even see another boat - the sea is a pretty big place so even if you are a bit over the limit who are you going to hurt?

1 - Yourself
2 - Your family you leave behind
3 - Others who have to put themselves at risk to come to your rescue
4 - All taxpayers , a road fatal costs around £1.3 million to the economy (source - Dept of Transport)

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by havener

So should drink driving be allowed on isolated roads then? Wherever you are, alcohol impairs thought and that can lead to accidents...



1 - Yourself
2 - Your family you leave behind
3 - Others who have to put themselves at risk to come to your rescue
4 - All taxpayers , a road fatal costs around £1.3 million to the economy (source - Dept of Transport)

I don't think it would matter to much if someone were to have a few beers whilst crossing the Sahara!!!

If you choose to put yourself at risk then that's up to you.

The people who put themselves at risk do so out of CHOICE. I was involved with Mountain rescue once upon a time. We used to LOVE getting a callout - it's why we were there. I suspect it's the same with the RNLI.

Most of the cost of a boating accident is probably looked after by the RNLI which is a charity. Also on those grounds it means you much blame mountain bikers and climbers for wasting tax payers money. Maybe they should bring in a new law banning dangerous sports to save the tax payers money?

One final point. Obviously consuming too much booze impairs judgement etc BUT it is still quite possible for someone who has had a few drinks to STILL be a better driver/boater than someone sober who has no experience or is elderly .

Ever driven when tired? Often that can be as bad or worse than someone who has had a few drinks!!!

[wavelength]

words fail me -for once!

[Sixy_the_red]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Ever driven when tired? Often that can be as bad or worse than someone who has had a few drinks!!!

I read about a study that had shown that someone who'd been awake for ( I THINK) 18 hours showed the same levels of imparement as someone who was over the drink drive limits.

Drinking and boating's a tough one. I really DON'T want to see the government getting involved in leasure boating - at the moment its all very amicable (mostly) and it works. You know full well how it will go if the government get involved.

A start before introducing drink/driving laws to boats (that will be enforced by who exactly?!) would be mandetory training for anyone taking a craft out on the water. You're far more likely to damage yourself and others through incompetence than intoxication.

[havener]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I don't think it would matter to much if someone were to have a few beers whilst crossing the Sahara!!!

Agreed, but you would be pretty daft! Alcohol dehydrates....

If you choose to put yourself at risk then that's up to you.

Tell that to the families of victims of drink related accidents.

The people who put themselves at risk do so out of CHOICE. I was involved with Mountain rescue once upon a time. We used to LOVE getting a callout - it's why we were there. I suspect it's the same with the RNLI.

Agree. In my time on the lifeboats (and even now in salvage) there is still an adrenaline rush of a shout. BUT there's a vast difference between someone enjoying their sport and suffering a mishap, and someone who has deliberately impaired their ability to respond to the same circumstances.

Most of the cost of a boating accident is probably looked after by the RNLI which is a charity.

A proportion of the cost is borne by the RNLI - but don't forget the cost of HMCG, helicopter responses, ambulances, time in hospital, tax revenue lost whilst not working, etc, not to mention the commercial cost of other vessels assisting an incident. Trust me, at our daily rate we well outweigh the RNLI but will ALWAYS assist an incident if we can, even if we're not tasked directly to it. This goes for all commercial ships.

Also on those grounds it means you much blame mountain bikers and climbers for wasting tax payers money. Maybe they should bring in a new law banning dangerous sports to save the tax payers money?

Absolutely not. Like I said, the responsible enjoyment of a sport followed by an unfortunate incident is part of life, but I come back to the difference between an accident, and a DELIBERATE decision to impair your thought process.

One final point. Obviously consuming too much booze impairs judgement etc BUT it is still quite possible for someone who has had a few drinks to STILL be a better driver/boater than someone sober who has no experience or is elderly .

Ever driven when tired? Often that can be as bad or worse than someone who has had a few drinks!!!

Couldn't agree more. But the fact that you could be better than a poor boater / driver doesn't mean you shouldn't always be as good as you can be, and that is impossible with alcohol.

Simon

[codprawn]

Agree with most of that but not this

"Absolutely not. Like I said, the responsible enjoyment of a sport followed by an unfortunate incident is part of life, but I come back to the difference between an accident, and a DELIBERATE decision to impair your thought process."

I would have thought chucking yourself off a cliff with skis on or doing 20' jumps through the trees on a bike is a DELIBERATE decision to impair your thought process - permanently!!!

[Limey Linda]

Codders: you are certainly nuts. Have you been drinking again?

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Limey Linda

Codders: you are certainly nuts. Have you been drinking again?

Hic!!!

[IBWET]

What if you've arrived,dropped anchor and are staying over? no booze.

would you ban everyone on the boat or only the captain,if so who's the captain.

If your in charge (in a marina) as in the car sense, are you guilty with a drink in you.

Bit more complicated for a reason.

As an alternative insurance should cover third parties only not the owner that would sharpen the mind to the responsiblities of boating.

Originally Posted by havener

Typical. Why make a law nice and simple when you can complicate it?

Drinking and boating either mix or don't mix, irrelevant of the size. Should I swap my Mitsubishi pickup for a Mini so I can get p1ssed and drive home safely then?

I'm all for banning drinking and boating totally (as it should be for drinking and driving), but this idea is just stupid.

Easiest law to understand would be no booze on any boat.

[havener]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I would have thought chucking yourself off a cliff with skis on or doing 20' jumps through the trees on a bike is a DELIBERATE decision to impair your thought process - permanently!!!

Yes, but I was assuming a base line of vague sanity to start off with

Simon

[havener]

Originally Posted by IBWET

What if you've arrived,dropped anchor and are staying over? no booze.

Would have assumed this would be treated the same as a lorry driver who is parked up for the night but over the driving limit. Personally I wouldn't drink on board at anchor, what happens if conditions change / anchor drags / etc. You're still responsible for the safety of that vessel. Wouldn't have any problems with a few drinks if tied up at a marina though.

would you ban everyone on the boat or only the captain,if so who's the captain.

The registered owner / hirer / charterer if on board, otherwise whoever was in charge at the time of any accident. If a helmsman is drunk, it's as much the skipper's fault for letting them helm.

If your in charge (in a marina) as in the car sense, are you guilty with a drink in you.

Bit more complicated for a reason.

I would have thought (hoped?) most enforcement would be at sea / breath test after accident, rather than snooping round marinas picking on easy targets (hang on, have I forgotten we're in Bliar's Britain?)

Trouble is though, without a licence to endorse, by only using fines you could use the argument that the rich are allowed to be drunk, but simply have to pay for the privelige...but we won't get on the licensing debate will we Codders ?

As an alternative insurance should cover third parties only not the owner that would sharpen the mind to the responsiblities of boating.

Sounds a good idea...

[Tims Osprey]

There is a huge difference between the responsible boat owner who enjoys a couple of beers or wines before setting out to sea than the irresponsible idiot that does the same before jumping in his speedboat or quite often a jetski, Then the idiot will nearly always try and show off by speeding up and down to close to other craft and bathers. I know that lots of other members will disagree with me but having fun while of coarse remaining responsible is what its all about, and if having a couple of beers along the way is part of that then why not? to many stiff necked kill joys out there today, hang lose, have fun and most of all be safe!

[kitten]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Errr... Ummmm... yes, and it does, sort of. The BBC report isn't very well written. See here for more info: http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speeches...lcoholmariners "section 80 should apply to those persons exercising a function in connection with the navigation of a vessel which is less than 7 metres in length and is not capable of a maximum speed of over 7 knots".
It's not law yet anyway, as the bizzarre "exemption" still appears to apply.

From same source,
"Of course, this exception does not affect the offence (under section 80(2) of the Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003) of having the ability to navigate impaired because of drink or drugs."
so which is it?
Or is it a different offece under another law if you have a sub 7m 7knt boat

[Sarah G]

Alcohol and transport always fuel debate.

Reading the threads on the Isle of Wight festival, it was clear that there were a few individuals who were seriously under the influence of alcohol when operating their boats - ribs, yachts - all. However, I suspect that there were also a fair few that would 'technically' (under the new law when implemented) be over the limit who were going about their business without any impact on anybody else.

We live in a society where drink driving is not acceptable and we (sort of) understand what is allowed and over the limit, but again this is a very grey area - some days I may be able to drink a fair few glasses of wine and feel fine, other days, you have one glass and feel over the limit. It depends how long you have been drinking, how well you are, what you have or have not eaten - so many things.

I suppose by bringing in a law - the 'powers that be' would have more facilities available to them to arrest people like the idiot in the RIB at the festival. In reality, how easy would it be for them to breathtest you - I can't see it. I line of police boats outside the Folley ready to breathtest.