New MAIB Safety Digest - including RIB incident

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by fred bolton

Wrong again salt water goes down to -21.1 degrees C before it freezes

Not really - it depends on the concentration - the coldest sea water is the artic which various between +2C and -2C so I wasn't exactly far off.

[prairie tuber]

Originally Posted by codprawn

You are talking about still air - with windchill and wet conditions it can be very bad on land as well - who knows - maybe nearly as bad as water. Water will not go below 0C - what about being soaking wet and 60mph wind in -18C temperature? I suspect then it's a different story.

You would still be better off than being immersed in near 0 C water. The sooner you are out of very cold water, the better, regardless of the weather. There are ways of sheltering oneself from wind (as you gave an example of) and obtaining a heat source once out of the water.

About this time last year there was a thread about what one considers essential kit when boating. Apart from some of the obvious items, two items I mentioned (that no one else did) was a tarp and and absolutely foolproof, immersible firestarting system. I got the impression that most people thought what would you ever need that for while boating?

The fact is that once you are out of the water literally (a crucial step) you still aren't out figuratively. You still need to be protected from the elements if it is cold AND you need an exterior source of heat to help warm up.

Originally Posted by codprawn

I wonder how much it would help in the water if you were to use some big elastic bands around your ankles and wrists for example - that would help even a cheap nylon suit to retain some warmer water.

Much better still, buy and use a proper survival suit in the first place if boating in cold water. That 3rd video shows the importance of this very effectively.

[The Jackeens]

Originally Posted by codprawn

There are all sorts of ways of helping yourself survive - I once saved myself from frostbite by putting my gloved hands into plastic freezer bags - the difference was incredible - totally cut out the wind.

1)Hypothermia

A tip from a fishing ribster... fleece gloves inside, marigolds on the outside. May not look cool or pretty but it really does work. I keep 'em in the emergency kit bag.

2) Kill Cords

We always wear the kill-cord round our legs because we were taught that way. It works and it's no harm to be aware of it at all times (quick glance) as it's such an important piece of kit. Have noticed other people wearing it clipped to jacket etc. It works for them. I personally find that when helming, feet stay more or less in the same position whereas the upper body is having to lean (check instruments) and turn (lookout/ check on passengers). I would therefore find it would get in the way.

A good idea is to get crew to check the helm's wearing the kill-cord as a matter of course (again a quick glance) at the outset of a trip & during the trip also.

Kathleen

[richardjawilson]

The survival times in cold water are fairly scary. I bought a Musto HPX drysuit, expensive, but cheap if you spend a bit of time considering the benefit it gives!!!!!!!!!!!

[John Kennett]

That's a good point which is often overlooked. In cold weather a drysuit doesn't just keep you dry and comfy, but it becomes a piece of essential safety equipment should you end up in the water.

It's also important to make sure that you are wearing appropriate layers under the drysuit to provide decent insulation.

John

[Jon]

"BRRRRR
Sir Robin Knox-Johnston lost considerable body heat as he was forced to
dive into the chilled waters of the Southern Ocean to free a rope from
the keel of his Saga Insurance. Rounding off a miserable day for the
67-year-old, he lost third in the Velux 5 Oceans solo round the world
race as Kiwi Graham Dalton passed to the south.

Even at 45 degrees south, in the midst of Roaring Forties, rubbish in
the sea is a problem and it was Knox-Johnston's misfortune to get caught
in a fishing net. He spent a fruitless six hours hanging over Saga
Insurance's side with a knife lashed to sail battens to free debris 4.5
metres under the hull.

"I spent the night thinking but knew that there was only one way I could
get at the problem and that was by going swimming," recalled the man who
was the first to sail non-stop around the world nearly 50 years ago.

This involved a drysuit, sealed at the neck and wrists, but with little
thermal clothing to reduce buoyancy. His solution involved sending two
long ropes over the side and a propane gas cylinder as a mastshift float
to winch the net to the surface to cut once he got back onboard. – Tim
Jeffery, the Daily Telegraph, full story: http://tinyurl.com/ygxgrs"

[ian mcconnell]

I have been reading this post with a lot of interest, Ive got all the must have safety bits BUT!!!

it suddenly dawned on me, what could i grip on to if this happened to me!!! has any one experienced trying to clamber over a 50cm tube when wet, cold & disorientated in typical solent seas, I bet it's near impossible.

I have not got the ropes many ribs have stuck along both sides of there tubes, and not enoth room for a folding ladder on the transom, So what or how would you get back in??

are there any simple available products or ideas are out there.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by ian mcconnell

I have been reading this post with a lot of interest, Ive got all the must have safety bits BUT!!!

it suddenly dawned on me, what could i grip on to if this happened to me!!! has any one experienced trying to clamber over a 50cm tube when wet, cold & disorientated in typical solent seas, I bet it's near impossible.

I have not got the ropes many ribs have stuck along both sides of there tubes, and not enoth room for a folding ladder on the transom, So what or how would you get back in??

are there any simple available products or ideas are out there.

Easiest solution would be to get a short rope ladder - many chandlers sell them - tie it to the A frame or a seat handle.

Another useful option is that you can now buy fender ladders - kills 2 birds with 1 stone!!!

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by ian mcconnell

I have been reading this post with a lot of interest, Ive got all the must have safety bits BUT!!!

it suddenly dawned on me, what could i grip on to if this happened to me!!! has any one experienced trying to clamber over a 50cm tube when wet, cold & disorientated in typical solent seas, I bet it's near impossible.

I have not got the ropes many ribs have stuck along both sides of there tubes, and not enoth room for a folding ladder on the transom, So what or how would you get back in??

are there any simple available products or ideas are out there.

(Assuming your engine isn't running) Use the skeg like a step. It'll be the bit that's moving the least anyway.

You could add some ropes too but in my experience they aren't actually much help to get back in with as they are rarely at the right point to get enough leverage-but if you're adding them you could make it that way. They are quite useful just to hang on to for a breather though if you're having trouble getting back aboard.

IMO a handle on the top or the inboard side of the tube would be more use as long as it's within reach while you're in the water. I've got one each side inboard on mine and it makes it a hell of a lot easier.

(It wasn't that cold when I was doing it btw- I was snorkelling 100 yards out in Lantic Bay in late August with about a 3' swell)

[ashbypower]

To board over the tubes is neigh on impossible NOS's idea of the Cavitaion plate (Engine off) is by far the easiest. Problem with Rope Ladder is that when you put weight on it, it will swing under the tube making it impossible to climb. Diving we fin like hell and use the outer safety line to pull up on.

Brian

[Tideway]

If you have an A frame then a permanently rigged handle over the engine(s) can aid you reboarding over the transom, using the cavitation plates on the engines. That is how the RNLI rig the Atlantics for reboarding after a capsize.

If I've sussed it correctly, I've attached a pic that shows the arrangement.

t

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Easiest solution would be to get a short rope ladder - many chandlers sell them - tie it to the A frame or a seat handle.

That assumes you had the presence of mind to deploy it as you were ejected. A ladder in the boat does you no good when you're in the water.

BTW, water sucks heat from you 25 times faster than air of the same temp. Being in cold, moving air while also being wet may be miserable, but nowhere near as miserable as being immersed.

jky

[ian mcconnell]

consensis would say use skeg and add a loop to the top of the aframe within reaching distance, simple and effective.