New RYA Powerboat tickets

[Jelly]

Are there any of the RYA trainers out there?

Whats the real story on the new qualifications?

Heard that advanced is going to become easier - daylight only.
To teach this you will have to have done the next level up ( no change there).
But this new level is going to a real sod much harder than current Advanced instructor - DoT power yachtmaster level / Comercial short sea masters ticket.

Come on whats the truth?
Jelly

[Jono Garton]

Hi All

These are the following proposed RYA changes tbc-

Introduction To Powerboating (level 1)
- will stay the same but also now become the Junior Powerboat course for 8 years up.

National Powerboat Certificate (level 2)
- will stay the same apart from now 90% water 10% class room

Safety Boat
- Stays the same

NEW Intermediate course
- to prepare yourself for the advanced, no night time

Advanced Powerboat course
- now equivlant to Coastal Skipper, still some changes to be advised but looks like its going to be harder. Still noght time work.

after a date next year you can no longer get a commercial endorsment from this course. You have to take a further advanced powerboat exam with a trainer not instructor, aswell as the other relevant courses, vhf, ss, 1st aid etc.

ICC will change, a Level 2 will get you an icc for <10m and coastal skipper for >10m.

Day Skipper - From next year if you are a Advanced PB Instructor and hold a YM ticket, you can go on a 2 day exam and then teach Day Skipper Theory.

Paul, do you have anything to add?

Hope this makes sense.

[DGR]

Jono (the first!!)

Do you know what the date is that APB can no longer be commercially endorsed?

Cheers,

Dylan...

[wavelength]

As I understand from our series of meetings the intermediate will be introduced from next season and avoids nightwork, as there are apparently people who want the content of the advanced without going out in the dark. It will also IMHO it will be a useful course to act as a primer for the advanced, which is a long way beyond level 2 if done properly. Advanced may contain elements such as finding unlit mark at night which was previously only req on trainer course/assesment and a different search technique than sector search (damn-we were good at that!). If the unlit mark bit comes in that will stretch folk a bit more as at times on clear nights lit marks are easier to find at night than during the day!Possibility/probability of from 2005 the commercial endorsement to advanced will only be available after taking an exam at a school other that the one at which you did your adv course so that you have an exam pass and not just course completion certificate.
I'll get the very latest lowdown next week when I get chance, but good old HM Coastguard are sending me on a 4x4 and long trailer towing(!) course so it will be latter half of week.

[DGR]

I assume (rightly or wrongly?) that existing endorsements/arrangements will be honoured - or will it apply retrospectivley and there be a need for a load of re-training?!?

Dylan...

[Jono Garton]

Current tickets will be honoured.

It was outlined at the Powerboat Trainers & Principal conference a couple of weeks ago that only Trainers will be allowed to offer the Advanced exam for commercial endorsment.

[wavelength]

Reply from the proverbial "horses mouth" at RYA this afternoon
"Sector search can still be taught it will say search's you then choose depending on candidate ability
Exam can be done at same school as training but examiner will be independent - just like coastal / Yachtmaster
Intermediate will be there partly as you say but as Advanced will be raised a bit the gap will be bigger still so most people will need some additional help. Also we need to teach electronic nav and how to use with trad better as well!"

also i asked when they were up here a few months back and the situation was
Existing commercial tickets will have "grandfather rights"
Will there be a rush to gather the bits to endorse advanced tickets as comercial?- I wonder!

[Alex Brown]

Originally posted by wavelength
Will there be a rush to gather the bits to endorse advanced tickets as comercial?- I wonder!

To perhaps join in this rush - what requirements are there for the commercial endorsement?
It was February this year when we were told, but I have long forgotten that, and didn't write it down either
I remember a medical and the adv. cert being two, but am not sure what else.

Thanks,

-Alex

[wavelength]

from memory, and I'm quite happy to be corrected - medical, sea survival ticket, 1st aid cert and probablysrc radio. the RYA will send you a medical form if you ask training section (cos Ive got one here that I asked for )

[Tekkie]

Hi Dave,
Good to meet you @ the NEC Sunday.
How about teaching the Intermidiate? what Quals? i.e. level 2 instructor or Advanced?

regards

Brian C

[wavelength]

Hi Brian
Yes it was a good weekend wasnt it.
Nice to meet up, hope to see you in summer when we do our busmans holiday again.
Did you like my job up in the front of that 6.3m. I am now official ballast for show boats!
Got to be A.I. (at the moment anyway)for the intermediate.
regards to Ashley and your "onshore caterer"-what a team!

[Alex Brown]

Thanks for that info Dave.... after a lot of trawling around the RYA website, I found that medical form, and finally the requirements too.
Not sure about going to get a medical as yet though, unless the company puts me through it that is!! I like the idea of the sea survival ticket though - just seen what it involves which would be well useful. Was meant to do the RYA 1st Aid this year at Neyland YC, but for some reason it didn't happen - will maybe push for that later on this year or beginning of next year.

-Alex

[John Kennett]

Looks like some good changes, and not before time!

I can't see the sense of the ICC distinctions though as the training levels don't bear any relation to size of boat.

John

[Paul Glatzel]

Jono

Good summation, just to add a few bits:

Introduction To Powerboating (level 1)
- will stay the same but also now become the Junior Powerboat course for 8 years up.

Level 1 will be offered aged 8 upwards but the children will only watch the launching rather than be involved. Craft must be fitted with two killcords. Craft used must be suitable for the children. Schools offering the course will obviously need to ensure they are up to scratch re Child Protection. Level 2 will be offered for kiddies 12 upwards (as now) but the wording of the endorsement changes.

National Powerboat Certificate (level 2)
- will stay the same apart from now 90% water 10% class room

The % mix is not a mandatory thing but to emphasise the need to undertake as much as possible out on the water rather than be tied to the classroom.

NEW Intermediate course
- to prepare yourself for the advanced, no night time

Perhaps a way to look at this course is as a cruising course. The course will take the knowledge from Level 2 re areas such as passage planning, navigation, tides etc and then use this to plan & execute passages with a far greater involvement of GPS. The course can only be run by advanced centres but they will need to ensure their operating area supports suitable passages (or they run coded boats). It will operate as a very good stepping stone to advanced but moreso addresses the demand for a course after level 2 but not requiring the extra 'investment' needed to go onto the advanced course. We expect this course to be hugely popular

Advanced Powerboat course - now equivlant to Coastal Skipper, still some changes to be advised but looks like its going to be harder. Still noght time work.

after a date next year you can no longer get a commercial endorsment from this course. You have to take a further advanced powerboat exam with a trainer not instructor, aswell as the other relevant courses, vhf, ss, 1st aid etc.

As Jono states is alligned to Coastal Skipper so tinkering rather than material changes. More on weather, the search generally taught will be 'expanding box' (althougth this doesn't stop schools teaching sector etc too) - reason was sector search is considered too complex in an emergency for crews to cope with, also more on skippers responsibilities.

Commercial endorsement: From Jan 2005 then you will need to undertake a 6 hour exam to achieve commercial endorsement. Test will be administered by selected Trainers. This change reflects fact that CS & Advanced give same 'rights' commercially yet Advanced was 'easier' to get hence the danger being inexperienced boaters get the commercial endorsement

ICC will change, a Level 2 will get you an icc for <10m and coastal skipper for >10m.

ICC divided into two 'types'. < 10m: obtained either via Level 2 or a test on a boat under 10m. <24m: obtained via the Motor Cruising Scheme course or via test on a boat over 10m. Sail ICC will now only give you power ICC < 10m

Day Skipper - From next year if you are a Advanced PB Instructor and hold a YM ticket, you can go on a 2 day exam and then teach Day Skipper Theory

As an Advanced Instructor you need YM Theory then take the Shorebased Instructor course

Other things:

- New logbook early 2004
- Instructors resources pack 2004
- Resources on the web for Instructors

Paul Glatzel

[oceanpro]

Good idea and long overdue, but its not exactly the catchiest of titles! Is this name whats finally been decided on as there are no details on the RYA site that I could find.

[Jono Garton]

oceanpro

no details on rya site, changes are still to be confirmed. Name is not def' as yet.

[oceanpro]

Thanks for that. I would have liked to have gone to the principals conference but it seems like the right choices have been made.

Here's another one thats been bothering me.
In the 'yellow book' MCA Code of Practice for the Safety of Small Motor Commercial Vessels, there is no mention of Powerboat tickets being valid for commercial work.

I have a commercial endorsement on my advanced ticket, but according to my understanding of the book its meaningless.

Having looked at the book again it does mention a boatmans licence. Do we fall in here?

[Paul Glatzel]

Oceanpro

You're right in that the Yellow Book makes no reference to Advanced. I checked with the RYA a few years ago and the Advanced equates to Coastal Skipper for the purposes of commercial endorsement, if my memory serves me the revised codes due out shortly specifically refer to the qualification as being acceptable. Anyway as stated above this is one of the key reasons for amendments to the Advanced course/achievement of endorsements.

Paul

PS: Drop Jane an email - she will confirm if in doubt

[oceanpro]

Thanks Paul. It'll be good when its all down in black & white!

[Rupert Bear]

What type of commercial endorsement and from where? What is the commercial called and what is it for and allow you to do?
What are the requirements and is it an ENG1 type medical required?
I am a bit confused about this!