OMC's, Delta's and Ocean dynamics

Shara · 22 August 2002, 23:21

Just after some expert advice!
First of all : are OMC outboards reliable/good?

secondly what are your views on both delta and ocean dynamic ribs as big sea going boats- comfortable/sturdy/capable of large seas etc?

Thanks

S

nigelt · 23 August 2002, 08:45

I have found OMC engines to be lovely!

Charles · 23 August 2002, 08:56

Shara

OMC does not exist anymore, they went into receivership over a year ago. A Canadian company called Bombardier have taken over all their interests and now manufacture the Evinrude and Johnson outboards. By all accounts they are very good and reliable.

Delta and Ocean Dynamics are excellent RIBS mainly aimed at the commercial market. I could be wrong but I think Ocean Dynamics RIBS cannot be purchased by every Joe Soap, you are required to be a commercial operator to do business with them. Delta on the other hand manufacture a large range of very good, seaworthy RIBS which are worth considering.

Alan · 23 August 2002, 09:31

You can't buy a new Delta either unless you are a commercial operator as Delta do not go for RCD approval which is required for sales to Joe Public. I believe this was a deliberate move by Delta some years ago to concentrate on their key markets.

Deltas are excellent RIBS IMHO - built like brick outhouses and are "proper" working RIBS. Witness the cruising exploits of Jim & Yvonne Mackintosh in Still Deep One (10m Delta 2x240 Yamaha). They are also the boat of choice for Murray Mcleod and the Seatrek guys working out of the Hebrides - seas where you definately need the ultimate RIBS!

There are a few around second hand and I think would make good buys providing you did all the checks on condition etc that you would on any second hand RIB.

Charles is right about OMC. I would add that I would not buy an OMC "Ficht" injected outboard manufactured prior to Bombardier taking over the business. Bombardier had to do a lot of work to improve the quality. That being said I would also not buy a normal 2 stroke of any size these days either as fuel economy is paramount. So modern FICHT, Optimax (Merc/Mariner) or HPDI (Yamaha) is the way to go.

HTH,
Alan

Shara · 23 August 2002, 10:36

thanks very much-
any more comments on the omc's- made for m.o.d. pre- bombardier?

also delta do i think now make ribs for leaisure customers and any thoughts of the sea keeping qual's of OD's rather than just surf-keeping qualities?

Shara

Charles · 23 August 2002, 14:49

My advice is to steer clear of any OMC engine's. Rather opt for the newer Bombardier designed Evinrudes if you must. There are many other options like Mercury/Mariner Optimax etc.

As far as your other question is concermed, I do not think you would be making a mistake going for a Delta or OD, for most applications.

Why do you ask anyway?

Shara · 23 August 2002, 16:41

we live in a remote place accessible only by boat!
It needs to be seaworthy for those nighttime winter crossings and a rib to cope with the rough jetty side!

Thanx

Charles · 23 August 2002, 18:15

Ok, you've come to the right place and the right boats for the job....RIBS!! There are a host of options for you to chose from, depending on budget, load requirements, diesel vs petrol etc, etc.
I think many people on this forum would be happy to offer their advice in assisting you making the correct decision for your application. Please give us an indication of what a typical trip would involve, that is distances and everything else you can think of. It would not surprise me to find ribsters on this forum that have already done the passage you are referring to.

Shara · 23 August 2002, 21:44

reason I am thinking of that rib and engine is that there is one for sale-here are the details- what do you reckon for a tough reliable work boat

Delta Rib 6.5m (fast rescue craft) built 1991.
Self righting frame with bag and canister. Also nav lights, deck light, solar
panel, radar reflector.
Front deck hatch for storage.
140hp johnson OMC engine manufactured 1996 and done under 100hrs in 2 seasons
use. Ex mod but still cased when bought.
power trim and tilt, Hydraulic steering
Underdeck (hand) and deck bilge (electric) pumps
2 x 17 gallon underdeck tanks with fuel filters and fuel/water separator
3 x jockey seats in triangle position recently upholstered
Radio is Icom 501 (new)
£8k

Richard B · 23 August 2002, 23:23

I'm quite taken by that, but you'll probably beat me to getting the cash together!

- also I'd have difficulty getting the trailer back from Alderney

Charles · 25 August 2002, 10:06

At first glance it certainly looks like a worthwhile proposition.

Consider this:
The RIB is 12 years old, not that much of a problem, but what state are the tubes and hull?
The Johnson outboard sounds reasonable, but try and establish if there are any engineers in your area who can service the engine and are parts readily available.
Rule of thumb, generally one should not purchase a second hand boat and then spend bags of money re-engining etc. It is simply not a viable proposition.
Are you able to find someone you know and trust who has good knowledge on Ribs who can go check it out for you?
Hope this helps a bit.

Alan · 25 August 2002, 22:35

I think its an entirely practical and reasonable proposition to buy a second hand boat and update the engine. The driver for this is simple - a great deal of the value of a second hand RIB is in its engine. (I am talking outboards here btw.) It is also the case that RIBs are low tech machines - fibreglass and hypalon all of which can be generally repaired, fixed and improved at a reasonable cost or even by the owner. Engines however are way more complex and unless you are a qualified mechanic can easily be beyond economic repair to repair.

We made a mistake 4 years ago buying a new hull and used engine - Our DS21. Fine we thought, shiny new hull laid out to our design and requirements. Old engine (Johnson 150 VRO) but low hours, OK might be a little thirsty but what the hell. Well it was VERY thirsty which is a problem in mainland UK. (Shara your OMC 140 will be similarly juicy) and cost us a fortune in servicing and repairs before it expired last year. Repair bill would have been £2-3k for an engine valued at £1.5k max. No way!

So we upgraded to an Optimax and never looked back. If my budget did not run to a new boat and engine I would always, but always go for the newest engine on a RIB I could find - OR buy a boat with an old engine, remove it and part-ex against a new tech engine. In fact this is one of the reasons I bought Blue Ice. 1996 boat but with a 2001 Yamaha HPDI (Dogs nads of big fuel injected 2 strokes). The upgrade had be done for me and the price was good considering the cost of the new engine.

So a good used RIB (and there are many bad used RIBS) with a new tech engine? Definately the way to go.

Shara - the Delta, if it is in fair nick sounds reasonable. The engine will be the weak point - fuel consumption and reliability. Go into it eyes open and you should be fine.

Cheers, Alan

Charles · 25 August 2002, 22:47

That's what forums are all about..... it would be dead boring if we all agreed on everything

Opinions are just that, Shara,take everyone's opinion into consideration and hopefully make an informed decision. Some options are viable and others clearly are not. You could end up spending a fortune in changing a second hand Rib into something you want, whereas if you ordered new to your 'spec' it would have been better in the long run, PLUS it would be new.

Short term gains are long term liabilities!

Daniel · 26 August 2002, 00:00

Ummm... Personaly would not buy a 1996 OMC engine. The boat is a good price, it just needs a Yam or Merc on the back.

A friend and i have just finished re-jiging his new 7m outfit which cost similar money with an OMC 200 - which we removed and recovered £1000 for and put towards a year 2000 150 optimax, reliable, economical, and a merc!

Still, Delta 6.5 is an excelent RIB - can't really conclude!

Daniel · 26 August 2002, 00:04

Might sell you my Yamaha 130 if you do want to change the engine - i quite fancy a 150 Optimax myself having played with my mates!

I am serious.

thewavehumper · 26 August 2002, 20:57

Shara.

On the surface, and let's hope that's where the boat stays, this looks like a really good deal. The hull may well be OK, but it needs to be checked properly( Marine surveryor perhaps). The engines could be checked by an OMC mechanic? find your nearest dealer and pay for hime to look the engines over.

Express your real interest in the boat and ask the vendor for a test voyage, offer to pay the fuel costs and take the boat to a dealer for a pre arranged inspection. Let the Vendor know this is happening and if he disagrees then walk away!

As it does seem a good deal and providing the Tubes are OK you would probaly need to replace them in the future get a quote for new tubes from Nick on this Forum and then budget for it over the next year or so!

treat it like a survey on a hpuse, if you spend a few hundred quid being told it's a bad buy, then you have save a pile of money and heartache, if you are tod it's a good un then Knock the vendor down the cost of the examinations and you are smiling?

At the risk of Sounding like Brian , you could even Jin BIBOA and ask if someone local could give you advice.

Where are you based by the way

Hope this is of use

regards
Stuart
regards
Stuart