ORCA 828, and ORCA 866 Is It Worth The Extra $$

[Hypalon]

I've noticed that Hypalon is often regarded as a reference standard in tube material. However, lately, I've been coming across a lot of information about ORCA 215, ORCA 820, ORCA 828, and ORCA 866. Honestly, I always thought all Hypalon was the same.

While browsing this site, someone recommended a link titled "PVC VS Hypalon (CSM) – Inflatable Boat Center," but unfortunately, that link was dead. So I'm reaching out to ask the question. Zodiac uses PVC/Strongan, but do people really believe it's as good as Orca? I was considering purchasing a Zodiac Pro 5.5 to replace my Inmar 470 Patrol, but when I read that they used PVC/Strongan, it turned me off. I'm sure it's a good material, although in general, PVC doesn't excite me. I'd wager Zodiac uses 866 in all the Milpro products.

Anyway, my question is this: If given the option to pay a bit more for 866, will it make the RIB a better, more reliable, and perhaps longer-lasting boat? And is it worth the extra few bucks?

[smallribber]

I would never chose Hypalon above more modern materials, I would even pay more for the more modern materials over Hypalon

[Hypalon]

Really?! Like what material, specifically?
I live in San Diego California and it’s a huge Navy town. I watch the navy seals train in the bay with Zodiac’s and I’m sure those are all tubed in Orca 866, some call it 1670 dtex Hypalon, it’s the same material. Aren’t the toughest, military grade RIB’s generally tubed with 866 Orca? Whenever I look through a complete line of RIBs from any brand, Highfield, Zodiac, Ribcraft etc I generally see the entry level boats in some form of PVC, the mid level in 828 and the top of the line 866. Even in the 3D Tender line, you’ll see the inexpensive are generally Valmex PVC, and then they go to Hypalon (Orca) for the more expensive RIBs. I’m just wondering is 866, is worth the extra cost over 828.

[smallribber]

Originally Posted by Hypalon

Really?! Like what material, specifically?
I live in San Diego California and it’s a huge Navy town. I watch the navy seals train in the bay with Zodiac’s and I’m sure those are all tubed in Orca 866, some call it 1670 dtex Hypalon, it’s the same material. Aren’t the toughest, military grade RIB’s generally tubed with 866 Orca? Whenever I look through a complete line of RIBs from any brand, Highfield, Zodiac, Ribcraft etc I generally see the entry level boats in some form of PVC, the mid level in 828 and the top of the line 866. Even in the 3D Tender line, you’ll see the inexpensive are generally Valmex PVC, and then they go to Hypalon (Orca) for the more expensive RIBs. I’m just wondering is 866, is worth the extra cost over 828.

I just bought a new 2D Tender XPro 535 and chose the normal material. I live in the UK so our temps are not anywhere as high as California so Hypalon I feel simply is not necessary. It also marks easily and is subject to of strange stuff that gets under the Surface. Hypalon was one of the very early and perhaps only material available back in the day and people remember this and like to stick to it. I have looked at many shows at many materials and many of the manufactures are very happy with the modern materials.

I feel the reason Hypalon adds an extra cost to a rib is not necessarily because it is any better but because it is perceived by many to be better so they can charge a Premium.

[beamishken]

Originally Posted by Hypalon

I've noticed that Hypalon is often regarded as a reference standard in tube material. However, lately, I've been coming across a lot of information about ORCA 215, ORCA 820, ORCA 828, and ORCA 866. Honestly, I always thought all Hypalon was the same.

While browsing this site, someone recommended a link titled "PVC VS Hypalon (CSM) – Inflatable Boat Center," but unfortunately, that link was dead. So I'm reaching out to ask the question. Zodiac uses PVC/Strongan, but do people really believe it's as good as Orca? I was considering purchasing a Zodiac Pro 5.5 to replace my Inmar 470 Patrol, but when I read that they used PVC/Strongan, it turned me off. I'm sure it's a good material, although in general, PVC doesn't excite me. I'd wager Zodiac uses 866 in all the Milpro products.

Anyway, my question is this: If given the option to pay a bit more for 866, will it make the RIB a better, more reliable, and perhaps longer-lasting boat? And is it worth the extra few bucks?

The gap between hypalon (orca) & the newer polyurethane products has narrowed in recent years & polyurethane can be more abrasion resistant but general wisdom is that hypalon is the better material for boats, & it usually outlives the pu & definitely outlives pvc. In the early years of a boats life I don't think it matters a huge deal which material you go for however as they get older & inevitable repairs are needed then the hypalon becomes far easier to maintain.
Whilst the gap has closed Id always pick hypalon over pu & wouldnt even consider pvc. For anything larger than a dinghy
Easdale novice is the resident troll here & thinks hes clever costantly spouting the opposite of the general norm of options you can take his advise with a pinch of salt , he regularly posts misleading & inaccurate info.
In short if you're planning on keeping the boat for a long time hypalon is the obvious choice, if your going to change in a few years theres not much to separate pu & hypalon but resale value probably lower for a pu boat

[smallribber]

As I said having many boats and many years of boating experience both with Ribs and Sibs I would never choose Hypalon over more modern materials. Many people are sadly stuck in the past. It is your money you choose but dont just follow the crowd do you own research and investigations to assist in making up your mind

[Pikey Dave]

PVC will last 10 years if properly looked after. Hypalon/CSM/Orca will last 30 years. PU is somewhere in between. PVC & Hypalon are easier to repair than PU, which is generally welded.
As Ken says, ignore the Troll, he’ll argue that black is white just to get attention.
If you’re going to be using your boat for “rough” work, e.g. diving, the thicker Hypalon will be worthwhile investment imho. My RIB has the thicker material.

[smallribber]

One of my Ribs is well over 25 years old and the tube material certainly is not Hypalon. It is in very good condition is original and I hope will have many more years left in it. Ask some people with experience in your area and see what they say

[Steve509926]

I may have read the OPs original post incorrectly but I have taken the question to be:-

"is it worth paying the extra for a different type of hypalon ie: 820 Vs 828 Vs 866"

and not

"Is hypalon better than pvc"

My understanding (I could be wrong) of Pvc Strongan is that it has two layers of internal cords laid at 90° to each other, hence the "Duotex", whereas other inflatable boat pvc only has one layer of cords, theoretically making it more tear resistant. All other properties of it are exactly the same.

[Pikey Dave]

Yup Steve hence my comment about going for the “thicker” 866 if the boat is going to be hardworked. The additional cost is minimal in the big scheme of things, but the additional thickness is noticeable.

[Hypalon]

I’m communicating with an OEM, and it’s less than $1k for 866 over 828. 828 is their standard tube material. My feeling is that it’s worth it, not only because it’s more durable, but when I go to sell the boat having the better tube material is a selling point. The RIB’s I see with 866 are generally $100k+ boats and for that reason my assumption is the 866 is the best material for tubes.

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Yup Steve hence my comment about going for the “thicker” 866 if the boat is going to be hardworked. The additional cost is minimal in the big scheme of things, but the additional thickness is noticeable.

So just for my education, 820, 828 & 866 is in reference to the thickness.

[tinker]

https://orca.eu/en/produit/orca-engi...rics-for-ribs/

[Pikey Dave]

Yup & the tear resistance

[Steve509926]

Thanks tinker & PD

[fastasfox]

The term Orca is a branding exercise and is just Hypalon.
There is a big mix up between Hypalon PU and pvc.
With modern methods of construction there is not much between the Hypalon and PU especially now they weld the seems on PU. PVC is generally domestic stuff .
Boat builders and users often back Hypalon as No1 but you make your own choice....do your research in other word's.
For the record my boat has PU Tubes.
Good luck mate.

[smallribber]

Originally Posted by fastasfox

The term Orca is a branding exercise and is just Hypalon.
There is a big mix up between Hypalon PU and pvc.
With modern methods of construction there is not much between the Hypalon and PU especially now they weld the seems on PU. PVC is generally domestic stuff .
Boat builders and users often back Hypalon as No1 but you make your own choice....do your research in other word's.
For the record my boat has PU Tubes.
Good luck mate.

Well said...... For me it is never worth paying a premium for Hypalon

[Pikey Dave]

Hypalon was also a brand name, of DuPont. The actual material is CSM, a synthetic chlorosulphonated rubber. The 3 materials being discussed, PVC/PU/CSM are all very different materials & not related to each other. PVC is the cheaper material, it has the lowest resistance to UV of the 3. PU used to be a Marmite material, I can remember the early Tornados using PU & they had a high failure rate due to the seams failing. Modern techniques seem to have overcome the problems & PU is up there. CSM has been around for years & has a proven track record for durability & longevity. There is a price premium to CSM/Orca/Hypalon, call it what you will. But you gets what you pays for. PVC is favoured by the cheaper mass producers as it’s cheap & they don’t care if it falls apart after 5 years. CSM is generally used in the higher end & commercial markets, due to the aforementioned durability & longevity. As per usual, it’s horses for courses. You wouldn’t spend the money on CSM on a cheap hull, neither would you scrimp by putting PVC tubes on an otherwise quality build. If you want cheap, go PVC, if you’re prepared to pay for quality, go CSM or PU if you’re brave.
I think the OP got an actual answer to his question several posts ago.

[smallribber]

He might like to reconsider based on the views of other people who of course are entitle to their view

[Steve509926]

Originally Posted by fastasfox

The term Orca is a branding exercise and is just Hypalon.
There is a big mix up between Hypalon PU and pvc.
With modern methods of construction there is not much between the Hypalon and PU especially now they weld the seems on PU. PVC is generally domestic stuff .
Boat builders and users often back Hypalon as No1 but you make your own choice....do your research in other word's.
For the record my boat has PU Tubes.
Good luck mate.

Hi fastfox, have you ever had to do a repair/added extras on your tubes? Was it as easy as repairing pvc/hypalon? What was the reason you went for PU?