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25 July 2024, 04:17
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#1
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Colchester
Length: 5m +
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,956
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Outboard Trim and Tilt Up Limiter
Because of the layout of my boat I need to stop/limit the power tilt up before it reaches its max position. I cant rely on my letting go of the rocker switch
I only need to do this from the throttle tilt switch not the one on the engine
I recon I can do this in 2 ways:
1) Locate the thin wire from the tilt switch to the relay in the engine, cut this and extend to a waterproof car bonnet type push switch mounted somewhere on the engine that will disconnect the circuit at a particular point in the up tilt,
2) Or do this in the up wire from the relay to the tilt motor. This will be much thicker wireing.
I prefer method 1. Can you see any disadvantages with this method
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25 July 2024, 04:24
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#3
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Colchester
Length: 5m +
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,956
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Switch I have in mind is somthing like this but mounting will have to be worked out
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364437147...hoChX0QAvD_BwE
I think the spec is:
Normal, Closed Momentary push button waterproof switch. Been searching around and not finding many
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31 July 2024, 13:26
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#4
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Member
Country: Ireland
Boat name: 380S
Make: Yamaha
Length: 3m +
Engine: Honda BF15
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallribber
Because of the layout of my boat I need to stop/limit the power tilt up before it reaches its max position. I cant rely on my letting go of the rocker switch
I only need to do this from the throttle tilt switch not the one on the engine
I recon I can do this in 2 ways:
1) Locate the thin wire from the tilt switch to the relay in the engine, cut this and extend to a waterproof car bonnet type push switch mounted somewhere on the engine that will disconnect the circuit at a particular point in the up tilt,
2) Or do this in the up wire from the relay to the tilt motor. This will be much thicker wireing.
I prefer method 1. Can you see any disadvantages with this method
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Is it because of some physical obstruction you want to do this?
Does your trim/tilt relay setup have over-current protection? You can test by holding it all the way down and see if the relay clicks out after a couple of secs when it has bottomed out (just like an electric window in a car).
If it does have it then you only need to physically limit the trim and the relay will cut out itself. You could do that with a steel cable and a carabiner, chain, nylon webbing etc. Basically anything that resists the motor and trips the relay. Am I understanding the problem correctly?
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31 July 2024, 14:53
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#5
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: suffolk
Boat name: not yet
Make: Gemini
Length: 5m +
Engine: Suzuki 140
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,293
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Try checking out honeywell limit switches and microswitches on RS catalogue ,you should find something for the duty with gold contacts or similar which should be pretty rugged for your application ,probhably with the right sort of actuator /roller
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31 July 2024, 17:38
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#6
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Colchester
Length: 5m +
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,956
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This is the issue I have. The power of the motor will easily break something if I don't release the switch in time. Hence want to cut it off at the appropriate time
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31 July 2024, 18:07
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#7
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RIBnet admin team
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,775
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Don't think I'm being unkind but I'd have that seat swapped or altered by a GRP specialist.
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31 July 2024, 18:52
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#8
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: wormit
Boat name: lots of them
Make: various
Length: no boat
Engine: all types
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 626
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Make a collar the same idea as a 19mm shaft anode from the chandlers. Unscrew the end cap from the centre tilt ram. Clamp collar round the tilt ram to act as a spacer at your chosen height.
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31 July 2024, 19:36
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#9
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Member
Country: Other
Town: Principalite d'Chaos
Boat name: The Nashers Revenge!
Make: Windsor Brothers
Length: 6m +
Engine: Optimax 225
MMSI: "Mmmmm SI" she said!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davie
Make a collar the same idea as a 19mm shaft anode from the chandlers. Unscrew the end cap from the centre tilt ram. Clamp collar round the tilt ram to act as a spacer at your chosen height.
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Surely that will stop it going down as far as it should, not limit the upward movement?
Unless you propose putting it inside the ram body?
It's not that clear in this old image, but I have exactly the same issue with my RIB, and it's actually worse with the 225 Opti I now have fitted.
I've always meant to do something about it, but over the years just remained vigilant when powering it up, and made sure I told anyone else who might do it.
You have prompted me however to have a look at the sender on the Opti to see if I can fool it into stopping early.
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31 July 2024, 19:56
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#10
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: wormit
Boat name: lots of them
Make: various
Length: no boat
Engine: all types
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 626
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Spacer goes in the oil between end cap and piston to dead end the travel on the upstroke.
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31 July 2024, 20:05
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#11
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Colchester
Length: 5m +
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenlander
Don't think I'm being unkind but I'd have that seat swapped or altered by a GRP specialist.
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I am happy with the seat and its location was where it had to be for the rest of the layout of the Rib. It actually works ok. I may alter it myself and have a plan on how to do it. I am mental busy at the moment and that might have to be next year. It works fine with me stopping holding the trim switch and the amount of up trim is fine for towing. but if I forget one time the power of the motor will break something. I know I chose the wrong seat but it was £1,000 so need to work with it. The switch idea will be quite quick and will work once I can get around to it. Just need a bit of time as my 'part Time work' has gone a little mental at the moment.
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31 July 2024, 20:07
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#12
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Colchester
Length: 5m +
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davie
Spacer goes in the oil between end cap and piston to dead end the travel on the upstroke.
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This sounds very interesting but I am being a little thick and cannot grasp what you are meaning. Is a simple sketch possible ?
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31 July 2024, 20:48
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#13
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Member
Country: Ireland
Boat name: 380S
Make: Yamaha
Length: 3m +
Engine: Honda BF15
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallribber
This sounds very interesting but I am being a little thick and cannot grasp what you are meaning. Is a simple sketch possible ?
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Essentially what he's describing is a spacer inside the ram. Rams have end stops on both ends of travel that dictate the max/min travel, and if you add a spacer inside on the full extension side, it'll limit the amount of travel it can do in that direction, but It won't effect the opposite direction.
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31 July 2024, 21:33
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#14
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Colchester
Length: 5m +
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by User name
Essentially what he's describing is a spacer inside the ram. Rams have end stops on both ends of travel that dictate the max/min travel, and if you add a spacer inside on the full extension side, it'll limit the amount of travel it can do in that direction, but It won't effect the opposite direction.
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That helps but that will involving taking the Ram to bits correct ?
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31 July 2024, 21:52
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#15
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Member
Country: Ireland
Boat name: 380S
Make: Yamaha
Length: 3m +
Engine: Honda BF15
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallribber
That helps but that will involving taking the Ram to bits correct ?
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Yep, but they're fairly basic in their assembly so it's not a hugely technical job.
I'd go with a strap, cable etc if you don't fancy getting too involved, but you've done basic carb maintenance on here previously so the ram will be straightforward.
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31 July 2024, 22:06
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#16
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Member
Country: Ireland
Boat name: 380S
Make: Yamaha
Length: 3m +
Engine: Honda BF15
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 399
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I just did a quick google image search for rams while I'm doing nothing.
Excuse the terrible drawing, but I added in blue a crude attempt at drawing a C-shaped spacer. This causes the ram to bottom out earlier, essentially short-stroking it (I had to do exactly this with the boot of my car so it doesn't hit the roof box). You can measure what size of spacer you'll need by marking the ram at the max you want it and then between that point and full extension will be the thickness of your spacer.
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01 August 2024, 04:25
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#17
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Colchester
Length: 5m +
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2,956
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That is an interesting solution. I think I will try the bonnet type switch on the up wire to the solenoid first though. Seems much easier and can easily be removed
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01 August 2024, 07:16
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#18
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Member
Country: Other
Town: Principalite d'Chaos
Boat name: The Nashers Revenge!
Make: Windsor Brothers
Length: 6m +
Engine: Optimax 225
MMSI: "Mmmmm SI" she said!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,891
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The internal collar is a good idea, but I'd want to check a couple of things on each engine I'd consider using it on.
1) Is the up movement limited by the piston hitting the end of the barrel at the moment?
Or is it electronically limited?
You might end up blowing a seal powering the piston against a stop.
2) In the same way really, the piston might rise until it uncovers a relief valve stopping the movement, with the same danger as above if that valve doesn't get uncovered.
If it simply stops by hitting the end of it's physical travel as standard you are good to go.
I believe this is the case on most engines by the way.
.
.
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01 August 2024, 09:40
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#19
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Member
Country: Ireland
Boat name: 380S
Make: Yamaha
Length: 3m +
Engine: Honda BF15
Join Date: Jun 2023
Posts: 399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallribber
That is an interesting solution. I think I will try the bonnet type switch on the up wire to the solenoid first though. Seems much easier and can easily be removed
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Just be cautious you're not interrupting the flip-flop circuit or you might find that the limit switch will also lock out the down movement too. Take detailed pics before you start so you have something to fall back on.
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01 August 2024, 10:55
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#20
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Brum
Boat name: UTV
Make: Bombard Aerotec
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke 25hp
MMSI: 235933026
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 715
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Some cylinders have a cushion circuit built into the final part of the stoke, this collar would disable that cushion, it would also displace some of the hydraulic fluid on the up stroke, but the fluid would be needed for the down stroke , which needs more fluid as it hasn't got the rod in the hydraulic circuit.
Far better using a N/C limit switch in series with the raise switch. Just make sure the switch is upto the job of being exposed to at least IP67.
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