Over 18's only

whitingiom · 12 July 2006, 13:45

Sorry if there is another thread on this, however quite important.

I just spoke to my broker (Steve at Porthcawl Insurance - very helpful would recommend them). Apparently powered craft now have to be under the control of someone 18 plus.

Something to do with the new Merchant Shipping Act, if anyone can provide more info, please do.

From experience there are lots of kids who drive ribs, and they may not appreciate that this change has taken place.

Mike B · 12 July 2006, 13:54

Sounds a bit strange to me. Does that mean the RYA are breaking this with their Youth racing schemes? or is that excluded?

J250 class - 15hp = 9 - 16 yo

K series - 25 / 60hp ranges from 8 yo to 15 yo minimum age depending on engine size.

Honda RYA youth RIB championship - 50 hp - 8 to 16 yo

Mike

Biggles · 12 July 2006, 15:34

might only be relating to your insurance company. Each company has its own rules. If your not happy move.

mdt · 12 July 2006, 16:33

I am foo to check my insurance tonight when I get in… never as we all know read all the small print. and have been letting my son off out on his own (yes with me keeping an eye on him)

I fear there might be a very grumpy 13 year old tonight

Matt · 12 July 2006, 17:21

Reckon it's bollocks, unless you're operating commercially.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1995...n_4.htm#mdiv24

Matt · 12 July 2006, 17:32

Put it another way. If compliance to the merchant shipping act is a requirement, how would any junior sailing dinghy (optimists etc) comply, or get insurance.

Ribald · 12 July 2006, 18:44

Might be worth checking with the RYA to see if they know anything about this.

nick wood · 12 July 2006, 22:42

Being a responsable and experianced 19y/o boater, I would not agree with age limits, but applying a drive test, like you take in a car would be a very good idea. but make it so as it can be taken by anyone of any age, you can not judge age on boat handerling, you must go on experiance. I think this would also stop a lot of mishaps that go on. you can do a lot more damage in a boat than a car so why do you not have to be tested by law.

sorry getting a bit on my hi-horse but.

rugrat · 12 July 2006, 22:45

100% in agreement with nick.
why not judge people on their ability rather than their age?

Bluestreak · 13 July 2006, 08:13

Not that i disagree but just because a 12 year old can drive a boat does not mean that they are old or mature enough to handle an emergency situation that may arise whilst they are at the helm. Regardless of training.
The law in Torbay Harbour is no under the age of 18 years old may drive a boat capable of more than 17 Knots and that no one under 18 may drive any PW.
Not that i agree 100% with that, but it works. Perhaps 16 and a level 2 or PW certificate?

To be perfectly honest i am sure this has been discussed to death and realistically nothing is going to change in the near future as even if they brought in a test or min age or MOT for boats, who would Police it? No one is going to happily pay more tax to fund a water Coastguard Presence.

whitingiom · 13 July 2006, 10:40

1) it's powered craft so the point about dinghy sailors isn't relevant

2) The Act is more recent than the 1995 act that is on the link.

I'm still researching, one of my friends works in IoM Marine administration so she is on the case for me.

The actual point Steve raised with me was about the age of criminal responsibility - IE who would be in court if a powerboat injured/killed someone else - all very well running Level 1 for 8 year olds, but if you were hit by one, they couldn't be held responsible for their actions? (Sorry I'm not a lawyer)

Cheers

Jon

fast fred · 13 July 2006, 11:09

"1 for 8 year olds, but if you were hit by one, they couldn't be held responsible for their actions? (Sorry I'm not a lawyer)"

nuthin to be sorry thare, the Parent or gardian is Responsible for any actions of thare minor.

Tim M · 13 July 2006, 12:04

I disagree. Surly the instructor would be held responsible for not having control of the children/boat

whitingiom · 13 July 2006, 12:04

Not here they ain't, there's a whole class of criminal out there who know they're untouchable.

Gangs of shoplifters use kids to steal to order. If caught all the stores can do is put the goods back and send them on their way.

(This is a response to Fast Fred but Tim posted before I did)

Tim - I didn't mean whilst under instruction, actually once qualified they are supposed to have adult supervision in the boat until 16 (or so it used to be as my son's Level 1 & 2 were endorsed as such). In the Rib challenge the kill cord is on an adult who is in the baot at all times I think?

Bluestreak · 13 July 2006, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitingiom

Tim - I didn't mean whilst under instruction, actually once qualified they are supposed to have adult supervision in the boat until 16 (or so it used to be as my son's Level 1 & 2 were endorsed as such). In the Rib challenge the kill cord is on an adult who is in the boat at all times I think?

Yes endorsed until 16, must be an adult on board. Also if the adult has the kill cord attached to them, technically they are in control of the boat.

Biggles · 13 July 2006, 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast fred

"1 for 8 year olds, but if you were hit by one, they couldn't be held responsible for their actions? (Sorry I'm not a lawyer)"

nuthin to be sorry thare, the Parent or gardian is Responsible for any actions of thare minor.

Not in the UK. Kids get away with murder here. Literally.

fast fred · 13 July 2006, 23:26

well not sure thats the right message to be sendin, i was thinkin minor by him or her self, and runs in to ya and pops your toob, what? just sorry," i'm a minor" surely you must jokin, right ?

Nos4r2 · 14 July 2006, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast fred

well not sure thats the right message to be sendin, i was thinkin minor by him or her self, and runs in to ya and pops your toob, what? just sorry," i'm a minor" surely you must jokin, right ?

No joke Fred.

I've come across one or two kids like that myself. One Geordie kid got pretty nasty with me at a bike run last year saying stuff like 'I can do what I like. I could do this or this to your gear if I wanted and you can't touch me'.
My response was 'If you do that you're going to get badly hurt.'
Him 'You can't do that I'm a kid'
Me ' I can do anything I F**cking well like. You've got no idea who I am.'

He actually thought about it,stopped being lippy and behaved himself.

I know it's a bit of an extreme example but it does rather illustrate that they wouldn't behave anywhere near as badly if they were held accountable for their own actions.

Oh, and before someone says it-I didn't get an erection or feel like a hero.

fast fred · 14 July 2006, 12:08

I see, over hear, well thare is punks, but seems i never knew it any other way, you are responsable for your own actions,too young, mom and dad get the bill, cuzz the youngster was on thare watch,...??