Pacific 22 first trip to Skye, problems again!!

highlandmarine · 05 October 2010, 00:01

The weekend started fine and sunny.
All ready for a trip to Skye on the rib, stopped at Plockton to pick a friend up, then on to Kyle for a fuel stop.

Boat was going great, quite choppy and stong headwind offshore, doing about 20kts.The tank was about a quarter full if that when we pulled alongside the pier to fuel up, grabbed some more supplies as we were staying
aboard my mates boat for the night.

Four people and 2 dogs, off we headed back under the Skye bridge, all seemed well.

Got her up on the plane, then cough splutter, she started to die, dropped onto 3 cyls
really struggling to keep going??..Could it be fuel i thought, on we limped eastward back towards the shore, eased throttle back to 12-1500rpm, checked the instruments all
normal but still she spluttered..Engine runs on all 4 cyls at low rpms, but give her flat stick and 8-10 secs later she starts playing up again..

Made it back to Plockton dead slow, where i left her tied up for the night alongside my mates boat, bit of a party thing.

Anyhow, i would guess its something in the fuel system??, could it be water in the tank??
The boat was stood for an hour after fuelling, so any dirt should have settled??
How do i go on about cleaning the tank on a PAC?
I suppose the only way is to drain the lot out and start again, with new filters etc?
Next trip i will be packing a tool kit for sure...

crazymac680 · 05 October 2010, 03:38

Thats some poor luck.
The best case is that you have some bad fuel but I think it more likely that some dirt made it to one of your injectors and now it is almost completely blocked. At low revs the injector is letting enough fuel through to let the cylinder run. At highter revs there is not enough fuel and she is running on 3 cylinders.
Try swapping the injectors and see if the next cylinder has the same problem.
Good luck
Dan

PeterR · 05 October 2010, 06:43

Behind the helm seat is a raiaised cover unscrew that under it will be a panel screwed down remove it.you will find the top of the fuel tank.I dont know what your problem may be but your engine if its the Mermaid is an uprated ford cargo engine so basicly any diesel injection company should be able to give you the reasons why this fault is happening.If you remove the injecter get it tested its normaly free at these places.I wouldnt swop around especially with something that works fine.It does sound like fuel though .A good filter sytem should have stopped everything unless its not been changed recently.Good luck

Ian Austin · 05 October 2010, 10:15

Hi Doug
It sounds like fuel starvation to me, i had a simular problem and found it to be the cork gasket under the inspection plate had disintergrated and a peice got stuck over the intake pipe.

You could also have a fuel bug, if you lift off the inspection plate (back of seat, under 2 covers) you can have a good look inside, use a fluid/oil extraction pump and vacuum out the bottom of the tank, check/change first fuel filter and blow back through the supply fuel line, if you still have a problem check outlet fitting on injector pump, if you remove the pipe start the engine and there should be a fine jet of fuel comming out.

Hope this helps

highlandmarine · 05 October 2010, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Austin

Hi Doug
It sounds like fuel starvation to me, i had a simular problem and found it to be the cork gasket under the inspection plate had disintergrated and a peice got stuck over the intake pipe.

You could also have a fuel bug, if you lift off the inspection plate (back of seat, under 2 covers) you can have a good look inside, use a fluid/oil extraction pump and vacuum out the bottom of the tank, check/change first fuel filter and blow back through the supply fuel line, if you still have a problem check outlet fitting on injector pump, if you remove the pipe start the engine and there should be a fine jet of fuel comming out.

Hope this helps

Thanks guys for your advice.
Just teathing problems i guess made worse due to rough sea conditions?.Just glad i wasnt too far from shore.

It also makes me wonder if this problem has always been there, remember the earlier postings regarding low top end speed and sluggish?? Mmmm?

Anyway she wont be getting looked at for the next few days, weather here is very strong south westerly winds, forecast for all week.

jyasaki · 05 October 2010, 16:15

Change out the cannister filter (if equipped with one or two.) Should have stopped any water from getting through, but may be so full it doesn't allow fuel to get past. Ditto with particulate contaminants.

From the description, I'd say it's almost certain to be a fuel flow issue: blockage (hose or filter), air leakage into the line under vaccuum, or a bad fuel pump. Underlying cause of whatever it ends up being will need to be corrected as well (i.e. water or dirt removed from tank, etc.)

jky

DJS · 05 October 2010, 17:07

I am not familiar with the pacific set up but do know a little about diesels!

One of the most common faults is fuel starvation caused by blockages in fittings either at the tank or those fittings between the filters and or the fuel lift pump as the banjo fittings have such small holes that they clog easily. (Don’t blow the fuel lines out with an air line- its better to find any dirt by stripping, then you know where to look the next time!)

Basically check all the fittings form the lift pump back this includes any rubber hoses for cracks as you wont necessarily have a diesel leak but instead the pump will draw air (check the back leak pipe of the injectors if fitted especially if this returns to the injector pump as any air drawn in here will cause an air lock/starvation situation. If there is a problem between the lift pump and the injector pump this is more easily found as it normally results in a fuel leak.

Finally if it’s an old style lift pump the internal valves could be blocked or worse the diaphragm could have gone. If the diaphragm is holed this will put diesel directly into the engine sump which will inevitable raise the oil level on the dipstick and run the bearings just for good measure!!.

Hope this helps!!

highlandmarine · 09 October 2010, 23:08

Well after spending most of today with my head buried in the PACs engine bay, i think i may have found the source of my poorly engine..

Starting at the fuel tank access panel, all the fuel lines checked out ok, however i was unable to remove them from the tank, as the unions are welded to the plate on the tank.

So i disconnected both lines and flushed both ways. Next strpped the fuel lift pump, all clean and correct in fact looked quite new.

Pre-filter stripped, replaced element and seals, no water or dirt to be seen.

Then onto the twin filters at the engine, stripped down both. Thats when i found the problem, both square seals that fit up inside the top casting were twisted and creased ( drawing air i thought under load?).

Changed both filters and seals. Checked all fuel pipe connections and joints.

Dropped all the spanners back in the box, threw on the lifejacket and fired her up.

Usual white smoke on starting, warmed her up on the mooring, while i checked all the instruments, all ok.

Shifted into forward and headed out to deeper water. Five mins later, gave it Flat Stick, up she rose and away we went, smooth as you like.

Fifteen miles later she was still cruising along nicely..
So it seems to be fixed, fingers crossed..

Just the leg to sort out over winter time, once i get the parts..
Bled all the system

spartacus · 09 October 2010, 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by highlandmarine

Shifted into forward and headed out to deeper water. Five mins later, gave it Flat Stick, up she rose and away we went, smooth as you like.

Brings a tear to my eye. Love it when a plan comes together. Good work soldier!

Ian Austin · 10 October 2010, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by highlandmarine

Then onto the twin filters at the engine, stripped down both. Thats when i found the problem, both square seals that fit up inside the top casting were twisted and creased ( drawing air i thought under load?).

Changed both filters and seals. Checked all fuel pipe connections and joints.

Hi Doug

I don't want to dampen your spirits, but, the twin filters are fitted after the fuel lift pump, so it's a positive pressure, so it would have leaked fuel out, not sucked air in.

The only other thing could be the lift pump is not pumping properly (i know you said you cleaned and inspected it) if you have a full fuel tank and you get on the plane the injector pump is below the top of the fuel supply, the injector pump will suck fuel in, if you have an near empty fuel tank it will struggle to pull in the fuel.

Hope this helps

highlandmarine · 10 October 2010, 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Austin

Hi Doug

I don't want to dampen your spirits, but, the twin filters are fitted after the fuel lift pump, so it's a positive pressure, so it would have leaked fuel out, not sucked air in.

The only other thing could be the lift pump is not pumping properly (i know you said you cleaned and inspected it) if you have a full fuel tank and you get on the plane the injector pump is below the top of the fuel supply, the injector pump will suck fuel in, if you have an near empty fuel tank it will struggle to pull in the fuel.

Hope this helps

Hi "Ah" good thinking that man!. I had plenty of diesel engine problems that were giving me similar issues this year, on various motors, all were air leaks, i guess i had a bit of tunnel vision going on, thanks for reminding me to get back on track with my head!!.

The only other thing i thought was dirt, as my tank was quite empty as i pulled into Kyle.
maybe she picked some up in the pick-up pipe and blocked it, allowing just enough fuel through at lower revs??
I would like to know what the pick-up looks like in the tank, but without removing the console i cant access the inspection cover ,its too far forward of the deck access panel.

Do you know if its a solid steel pipe, or a "clunk" rubber type inside the tank? Does it have a fine mesh filter head on it?

Neville · 10 October 2010, 20:18

Doug, A common issue with these boats is condensation forming in the tank , especially if it isnt kept full. It has happened to me on several occasions coincedentally all on P22's ! Its obvious though as you will get water at the separator.
Good luck !

Ian Austin · 11 October 2010, 21:29

Doug
Pick up pipe is straight, about 1/4 inch dia and slash cut on the end, should be about inch or two off the bottom.

Are you sure you cant get the inspection plate off, i had mine off a couple of times, with the original tank, i think it was tight, but doable.

highlandmarine · 11 October 2010, 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by highlandmarine

Hi "Ah" good thinking that man!. I had plenty of diesel engine problems that were giving me similar issues this year, on various motors, all were air leaks, i guess i had a bit of tunnel vision going on, thanks for reminding me to get back on track with my head!!.

The only other thing i thought was dirt, as my tank was quite empty as i pulled into Kyle.
maybe she picked some up in the pick-up pipe and blocked it, allowing just enough fuel through at lower revs??
I would like to know what the pick-up looks like in the tank, but without removing the console i cant access the inspection cover ,its too far forward of the deck access panel.

Do you know if its a solid steel pipe, or a "clunk" rubber type inside the tank? Does it have a fine mesh filter head on it?

I think the boat has had a new deck fitted and the access panel is not anywhere near the metal tank inspection cover , its just impossible to get a spanner on the fasteners without getting a jigsaw to the decking???.

Pete7 · 18 October 2010, 19:04

Only one thing for it then

Pete

Ian Austin · 18 October 2010, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

Only one thing for it then

Pete

that looks so familier

Ian Austin · 18 October 2010, 20:48

when i did mine two 110 amp/hr went either side of the bearers on the outside, gives you more room in the console for your snack

.

highlandmarine · 19 October 2010, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

Only one thing for it then

Pete

Ouch!. Im not doing that til maybe next year, my deck is new "damn it".
Think i will drill a small access hole in the tank at the bottom, the bit i can reach, and see if any water comes out??.

She has been running ok since i drained and changed the filters and lines.
Im getting the injectors checked out next week and wouldnt mind having the injection pump checked out also, however i dont have the timing pin/plug for the CAV pump.

Just peace of mind and check timing is set ok too. Anyone help me out with timing data? or locking pins, tried all my usual car pin kits and nothing the right size.

Also when i bought her, the timing pin blanking screw on the pump was missing?.Which was causing oil mist down the engine on stb side. Still need a correct thread as its just capped off with a plastic bung at the moment.

Bigmuz7 · 19 October 2010, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

Only one thing for it then

Pete

Wowsa .. the P22 must be a heavy old hull

.. never driven one

Ian Austin · 19 October 2010, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

Wowsa .. the P22 must be a heavy old hull

.. never driven one

Mine came in at just under 2 1/4 tons with all the codeing kit, fuel etc.

If you want to drive one, wait till it's bad weather, then you will enjoy