Pacific 22 - Halmatic vs...

[Nate]

Hello all - looking for a nice P22 as I'm flat broke from buying petrol for a large outboard. Have heard a couple of doubts raised about 1990/1991 boats that were built by another outfit (can't remember the name, but NOT Halmatic); specifically quality of the deck.

As this purchase already requires a remortgage and selling the kids for medical research I'm keen to get best boat for the money etc. Can the experts advise what to look for and whether 90/91 boats have problems?

[Pete7]

Nate hi,

thin the other firm was Victoria Yacht Services down in Plymouth. Neville did mention them on one of the Pacific posts a while back. Although some of the fittings were slightly different I wouldn't be put off by that, more what is the condition of the whole boat. The decks are marine ply but not glassed over like most ribs so they can be replaced. The rear deck has a hatch for getting to the stern drive which makes the rear deck a little flexible, best to fit a piece of checker plate over this which solves the problem once and for all.

Nicest P22 I know for sale at the moment is the one with red tubes and a different console in Lymington, very nice boat if a little expensive.

Pete

[Nate]

Thanks for the reply Pete - seen the advert for the boat you mention and it''s very nice looking but too much money - plus I like the funky ex-military look of the p22 as-is; plus you never know, but we might need to scare the illegals...

Got a couple to look at and will probably be boring you and Neville plus Scary Des with endless requests for advice, information and instructions on fixing etc. I'm reassured that non-Halmatic are not going to fall apart, so maybe sooner than later as the 1991 boat I've already seen is gorgeous.

How do you go about uprating the 130 Mermaid to 200?

[Pete7]

Nate hi, no problem with the questions, fire away. If you want the Halmatic manual its hosted

HERE

You can uprate to 165 hp by fiddling with the pump, but 180 - 200 hp requires a re-build to check the engine internals and a change of turbo I think. Best to ask Mermaid, they have a very good Owners Club for £15 a year and will answer any of your techincal questions. They also run some very good engine maintenance courses, well recommended.

Pete

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Nate

...... Can the experts advise what to look for .......

If I was you I’d focus on the condition of the outdrive.

When you sum up all the threads on Ribnet about P22 I think the great majority (other than pete7 marathon console change) are dealing with the outdrive
Having found most of the pit falls I would happy to help you avoid one or two Des

[Nate]

Thanks Des - I'm enjoying reading the P22 manual from Pete7's site and I've almost memorised the section on the outdrive...

Had a look at the other threads and saw mention of ram problems, and hugely expensive repair bills when the unit is run without enough oil...

Obvious question then - what does a nice reliable outdrive look / sound / taste like? Barring the obvious like sheared studs and oil leaks are there any static checks a potential purchaser can make on the outdrive - or will most faults need a sea test to become apparent?

Final point - should I start looking for a large shed or workshop and be adding heavy lifting equipment and a comprehensive 1/2" drive socket set to my existing tool kit (two bent screwdrivers and a 10mm spanner)?

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Nate

Obvious question then - what does a nice reliable outdrive look / sound / taste like? Barring the obvious like sheared studs and oil leaks are there any static checks a potential purchaser can make on the outdrive - or will most faults need a sea test to become apparent?

Final point - should I start looking for a large shed or workshop and be adding heavy lifting equipment and a comprehensive 1/2" drive socket set to my existing tool kit (two bent screwdrivers and a 10mm spanner)?

Nate
With the external unit I would start by checking the oil level and then drain some off. If it is thick, white and milky you’ve got water in the oil. This comes either from the seal behind the prop. or from the bellows. If it is oily and the right level still check for oil staining behind the prop and on the different sections of the leg (3 parts from memory).
Check the bellows by getting the vender to peel back the bellows (while you are there) and see what is inside inevitable there will be some moisture and there will be some oil and grease but spoonfuls not bucket loads.
Check the UJ that is inside the bellows it has a couple of grease points that get forgotten about.
Next check the rams and hoses. Look for oil staining, corrosion holes in the outer housing of the rams and frayed or kinked hoses.
Check the steering ram by pushing the leg from one side to the other, if you have a problem the leg will move because oil will bypass the centre seal.
Inside the transom now look for water leaking in around the transom housing. Best done on the water but be realistic there will always be a bit of water about, look for obvious dripping.
The bearing housing that is situated just inside the transom housing is always neglected (see other posts) I would suggest taking out the filler plug (if it will come) and checking the level. One tip is nick a straw from the pub and use this to dip the level and to take a sample (put straw in, stick your thumb over the end, draw out sample).
Check the prop shaft for excess movement and lack of grease.

Trouble is that it is quite difficult to really know what to look for unless you have seen it before.

Where are you viewing these boats?

As to tools, in my opinion you can never have enough tools but there is something wrong with me
Des

[Sharkie]

Hi All,

Thought I might just drop a line in on this thread, hope you dont mind.
As some of you may know, I have enjoyed most of the PAc problems over the last 15 months of ownership. I am gobsmacked at how much effort is involved keeping a boat like this running, but then I am using her every single day for up to 2 hours each day; I liken it to running a LandRover over a very caustic, ploughed, muddy, rocky field 2 hours a day - you need to carry spanners and tighten up most things on a regular basis.

Re: the leg, my advice is to make sure you have excellent sacrificial anodes and ensure they are connected properly to all the metal bits flayling around in the sea water. When I bought my Pac she had spent most of her life on a trailer and the problem was dried leaves, not salt water. First thing I knew that there was a problem was when she was filling with water. £4000 later the stern drive is fine, but I watch it like a hawk.

Next thing happened in January. The exhaust hose split and the boat filled up with water over night. Following day, starter, alternator and engine comt wiring was all shot. Also got water in the fuel tank (fwd one - mine has 2) through a loose union. Insurance job, just getting it finished now.

Had fun with intercooler, turbo hoses, oil leak, dodgy starter button etc.
Just for fun, I put my little 2hp Honda 4 str on the transom and drove her round the marina. Took nearly 2 minutes to get her going astern and 30 seconds to get her moving forward again. Max speed - about a knot.
Somone told me you need a min of 1hp per metre length for an aux donk.
I have a 6hp Merc on spec but it needs spares, aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrggghhh!!

Still, got rid of the losing coolant problem, head gasket was passing, pressurising the cooling system. Gasket changed, tappets checked, injectors dished up, compressions checked and all back together..... and now the exhaust manifold is leaking. This weeks task - and all while she is in constant use. I get through 2 - 3 tanks of diesel a week.

QUESTION (if you are all still reading - sorry, prattling on a bit). I want to get hold of another spare prop. Lancing are looking at £346-62 incl pp+VAT.
Cant really afford that at the moment but would be very happy to have a repairable prop for a reasonable consideration.

Oh yes, my advice on the tools front - a good torque wrench and a great selection of metric and imperial (long and short reach) sockets.

Regards

Steve White
Sharkie
Pacific No 8930

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Sharkie

....QUESTION (if you are all still reading - sorry, prattling on a bit). I want to get hold of another spare prop. Lancing are looking at £346-62 incl pp+VAT.....

Sharkie if you are in the RN (royal Navy?) can’t you liberate one from the side of a frigate Failing that Mermaid had a couple of reconditioned props sometime ago, give Cyril a ring. Des

[Nate]

Are these boats really expensive to run? Saving a few pence on diesel and spending thousands on repairs may not endear me to my personal financial manager/girlfriend who is already suspicious about my claims that buying a P22 will save money!

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Nate

Are these boats really expensive to run? Saving a few pence on diesel and spending thousands on repairs may not endear me to my personal financial manager/girlfriend who is already suspicious about my claims that buying a P22 will save money!

I think the answer is that it all depends

Any boat can be expensive to run if you don’t maintain it properly, if you buy one in a shocking state then expect to spend money and via versa. Over the time I’ve owned my one I know it has cost me less than the Tornado I had before.
The one thing that really used to piss me off was coming back from a good day on the water and having to put £150 of petrol in the tank now if I try really hard I spend £40 and the P22 is bigger and dryer than the Tornado

When you think that one of these new is well over £100K (did someone say £138k) you get a lot when you buy second hand and it will always be worth about the same (if looked after). Compare that to buying a new boat in a few years it will be worth half what you paid for it Des

[donutsina911]

des is spot on - had quite a bit of experience with artics & pacs in the RN and whilst people moaned about them (especially the poor sods who had to maintain them), they are bullet proof both in terms of being beaten up on a regular basis and residual value if looked after properly. Some of the stuff we did with these ribs day in day out would have broken my Ballistic in minutes and will probably be worth the same in a couple of years.. friend of mine who works in defence procurement reckons that £94k is the going rate for one so that to me means decent value for money.

[hard1]

And don't you just lurve the sound of that rumpity rump Ford Turbo 4 in there!!!

I know i do.....

Go on, stick a 200hp T4 in there. You know you want to...

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by hard1

And don't you just lurve the sound of that rumpity rump Ford Turbo 4 in there!!!....

Yep going to have a little listen now Des

[Nate]

Thanks again Des for putting my mind at rest - a reassured girly agrees that a P22 is a sound investment, but has warned that if it all goes t*ts up then she'll chuck me out and you get to keep the dog.

Donuts - your sound advice about if it "floats flys or f**ks - rent" it came too late unfortunately to prevent me from becoming a goose farmer...

[donutsina911]

[Pete7]

QUESTION (if you are all still reading - sorry, prattling on a bit). I want to get hold of another spare prop. Lancing are looking at £346-62 incl pp+VAT. Cant really afford that at the moment but would be very happy to have a repairable prop for a reasonable consideration.

Me neither, so this is what I have found out to date about props for P22s. The original props were made by Michigan Wheel and marked SMC 807. Spoke to Keypart the UK importer and they are no longer made unfortunately.

Lancings props are made by Sillette, Lancing don't even bother opening the box, just post it on to you. They are much thicker blades than the originals, don't know how this effect performance though. Unfortunately Sillette won't sell you a single prop, there seems to be some sort of closed shop with Lancing, possibly because they buy them in bulk or make a special order for them when stocks run low.

http://www.sillette.co.uk/first.htm

Spoke with Julie at Steel Developements and she confirmed that a long hub volvo prop will fit with a spacer (presumably at the back so the nut can reach the prop). however volvos are only 16" diameter so steel Developements don't recommend them. Need an engineer to work out what the difference in performance would be with a 16" diamenter prop over the standard 16.75" or if I find a really cheap volvo prop might just fit it to see. anyone know what less daimeter more pitch does ?

Haven't tried Poole Propellors yet, we need someone in Lymington to drive down and have a chat with them.

Also the drive seems to have been manfactured under the name or by "Dana" in the states. The saga continues, (much to the groans from the rest of the forum )

Pete

[Swifty]

Originally Posted by hard1

Go on, stick a 200hp T4 in there. You know you want to...

Out of interest what performance do you get from a 200?

[Pete7]

29 - 30 knots.

Pete

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Pete7

.......Haven't tried Poole Propellors yet, we need someone in Lymington to drive down and have a chat with them......

Willing to go but why the need for a personal visit don’t they have a phone Des