Performance

[Julian]

Seahound

It would cost a lot of money to convert seahound to diesels as the boat is layed up for outboards etc. Again I agree with charles that the Yams would be my first choice if you have the money but the Evinrude's have a very good write up and are a lot cheaper to buy.


Ask Graham Jelly from Scorpion. He will advise you.

Julian

[Manos]

Originally posted by Julian


It would cost a lot of money to convert seahound to diesels as the boat is layed up for outboards etc.

Julian I believe that you are very correct in saying that. To convert a boat made to carry outboards into inboards takes a lot of money, you need different strgnthening points, diffrent layout aft etc etc. Also you lose space.
But any way, Seahound I have asked my mate in Scorpion in Greece. He said that although he does not have experience on the10 mtr cabin he believes that because the Scorpion hull is a fast planing V shaped hull you can achieve the cruising speeds you are looking for with even 2xYamaha 200s VMAx HPDIs.
If you go for larger engines the obvious thing is that you will be increasing consumption but you also gain in pulling power whatever the carrying weight of the boat will be i.e. you will be able to cruise at 30-35 knots with the similar range revs if you have 6 people in and gear and if you have 2 people in and no gear.
I do not think when one talks about twin outboards has consumption in mind as all is relative I would say go for the 2 x Yamaha 200s VMax HPDIs (VMax technology come into effect after 4500 revs and the engine between 5000 and 6000 revs produces 230 bhp rather than 200bhp. However consumption figures double all round after 4500 revs).

[crazyhorse]

As far as costs go it would over the first yr of paid for itself if you intend doing some serious mileage.The problem is this is a difficult problem in as much that I believe you are replacing two outboardes with another two outbordes.I dont believe that you will get any real major savings.It will take a long time for you to get your investment back.

There are people in your neck of the woods who specilise in fitting Diesels into boats and fibrglass work if you pm me I will give you a few numbers.

What Im suggesting for consideration is a single diesl with a leg and a central aft engine box.At the moment you can only go for aprox 300 hp that will give you aprox 35 knts.In the next 2 yrs there will be new cummins electronic approx 370hp and proberbly a new Electronic Yanmar/leg.

I have to admit It is a big job the engine beds and engine box and stiffining up the hull where required but the question is will it cost 12k for this work as the deal you get on a single diesl around 300hp will be around the same as a 250 hp outboard.But with far less running costs.

Good luck

[Julian]

You could put the 2 new 420 Yanmar's that would give it some power but I dont think its worth it. The cost of diesel being added would be a fortune. A engine box alone is seceral thousand pounds without the engine mounts and hull being strenghtened etc. It would be cheaper to sell the boat and start again. I suppose it depends how long you are keeping the boat for and if you can warrant spending a bomb changing over to diesel. As the boat is Rigged for 2 out boards with steering cables etc you may as well go for smaller more ecconomical engines. Or drive slower.

[crazyhorse]

I agree she would fly with twin 420s but i would worry about the legs, the market is changing and fuel economy is becoming important to people, and I am aware of two new boats who have been asked for a re design of the hull to go for single diesls.I think it will not be long before you may see a new single Scorpian?.Lets see what happens, I may be wrong as they make more money out of selling twin engine packages.

[Manos]

I think we have gone too far!!
To do major things like that on a boat and then concern about fuel consumption is a bit of a joke!!
Crazyhorse you have never asked what is the boat intended to be doing.
With all due respect not all people want to spend day in day out motoring along and specially the majority of people I know of they don't give a second thought about consumption.
A HOBBY DOES NOT HAVE A PRICE!!! One does it because one can afford to do it otherwise one does not do it at all!! Specially when you have a boat that cost you over or near 100K you must have the money and can afford the odd ltr of fuel (I recon).
The guy just want to replace his 2x300 bhp engines with smaller outboards. He is not a professional fisherman or a professional explorer and he does not want to circumnavigate either (or does he and I don't know ).
As far as I can see he just want to go on a cruise here and there a little bit fast and to have less fuel bills. End of story. He will get some money by selling the old motors, put a little bit more money and buy 2 smaller ones without any other major expense. Same controls same tanks etc etc
What is this all about new twin or single diesels, new geraboxes, and numerous boat modifications??
I think because of your pasion on diesels you got carried away
LOLOL

[crazyhorse]

I accept that if he uses for a the odd rib.net bash and a bit of running about then the costs are still going to be in excess of 22k plus for 2 engines.

It is indeed how much he wants to use the boat?Outbords are great for the right application and diesls are great for there respective applications. I am not going to sit back here and watch everybody advise withought giving a second opinion.Indeed outbord may be seahouds preference.Fine I have no problem with that as it isnt my boat, Lets not forget that this boat is a 9.5 mtr rib, but at least he has listened to two sides of the story and can make a more informed decision. Also I dont want to be a kill joy but most outbords run at there most economic at about 3rd power,So if you downsize on engine you will need more revs and fuel consumption to push the boat along.

This reley isnt a simple question or answer,in my view.

Thats what a forum is about.In my view anyway.

Good luck Seahound

[Manos]

No disagreement to your posts as always!!
Just saying my views that's all. I believe that is healthy to have discussions where all opinios are heard without people getting heated up about it

[crazyhorse]

Yep thats fine by me, Dont get all emotional over this,I just whish when I was looking at buying there were objective imfo out there,its hard and if you get the decision wrong then you will loose a lot of money.Its a sport and a hobby so maybe to some that doesnt matter,to me it does as If I save money I can get out more, and upgrade my kit more often.

I take im still invited on your boat for Rib.net then.

Ps I hope you aint got that cheepo vhf on board?

[Manos]

Yes you ALWAYS have an open invitation to come on my boat. So no need to ask!!
VHF of course I will have the cheap for spare and the fixed one is an ICOM Europe with GMDSS (the lot!!) CE marked, type approved etc etc bought in SAfrica for a LOT less than what ICOM dealres sell them in Europe!!!
Same with GPS GARMIN map/ Sounder with twin screens all in coulor with this new M-Chart or something.
As a matter of fact I have found that there are different prices in Europe and the US than what things sell for in SAfrica. Possibly is because of the lower currency value or something.
If you build a boat there it actually worth while to fit the kit locally. However, if you try to send any of these items separately in the UK the transportation costs will definately kill the lower price deal (unfortunately!!)

[crazyhorse]

Manos great news.
I also got Icom Euro with dsc its a good set.
In fact that has reminded me when I was looking at the 225 honda,s and was considering twins I got a price uk of 12k each,this was a couple of yrs ago aprox,I contacted Knysna Marine in Knysna in S.A who were honda dealers and there price at the time was 7k for each engine.?

It may be worth Seahound looking at this if he goes for twins?

[Manos]

Originally posted by crazyhorse
It may be worth Seahound looking at this if he goes for twins?

Well I think SAfrica is an option if he goes to buy 2 motors. The engines are CE marked and they are fully guranteed for repars in Europe. Mine is any way.
However, as some European dealers (they have the franchise rather than the dealership) don't want to get involved with this type of engines free and they charge (is wrong!! I have contacted Yamaha Japan on this matter and a dealer (franchise) lost their licence from Yamaha because they were refusing to hounor Yamaha international guarantee) is always best to contact the dealer first and ask the obvious question
i.e. I have an engine such and such make, is bought from wherever, has an international guarantee and is CE marked will you cover me??
The answer should be YES!! but one never knows with all these the crooks around

[crazyhorse]

You might be able to split the shipping charges.If the timeings right.?

As you say a quick word with a couple of U.K dealers on the international warrantie work would put ones mind at rest.

Dont expect them to be real enthusiastic about it but if its in the contract then thats there obligation.

See http://www.knysnamarine.co.za/

[Manos]

Knysna marine Did you see the 2nd hand boat prices???
Bloody cheap for a 2nd hand 5 mtr Gemini with 90 bhp engine GBP 2,200 about!!
Have a look!!

[crazyhorse]

No i didnt look but will do, they were real cheap when I last looked 2 yrs ago?

[matiboy]

Whilst your all going on about fuel consumption, here are some sobbering thoughts for the UK fuel user playing around in their boats :

Every 50 quid you bung in your boat you are effectively being taxed 43 by the Government, the fuel cost you aprox 7 quid, other than that you are lining the coffers of the government

Good enough reason to run a 50 hp Johnson, I would love to get a bigger boat with more powerful engine but the above fact kinda grates with me

The reason I sold my bayliner with V6 4.3 litre gussler

Just because I am into boats why should my tax burden be higher ?

[Manos]

Originally posted by matiboy
Every 50 quid you bung in your boat you are effectively being taxed 43 by the Government, the fuel cost you aprox 7 quid, other than that you are lining the coffers of the government

the word

FLEEST
comes to mind when prices in Europe are between Euro cents 0.70-080/ltr for unleaded and 0.78-0.85/ltr for super unleaded!!
i.e. someting like 0.35-0.40 UK pence per litr.

Something which I never could understand is why many things in the UK cost as much as 2ice more than what things cost everywhere else in Europe?

Is a mistery

[crazyhorse]

MATEBOY your dead right,its the running costs that can ruin your fun,and need at least some consideration.

Manos I could see you were about to slip int that old favorite of yours,Its all a big rip off in europe, and you can buy from greece much cheaper,engines boats etc.

Well here is your chance to quote:

2 x yam 225hpdi whats your best deal that you can get either ex greece or landed u.k with warrantie. Lets see weather it is indeed cheaper and if so bye how much?

Go for it Manos.

[Manos]

ex GREECE
These are catalogue Prices. You can get 20% discount on those

4-strokes
F225AETX (L)............. EURO 21,870
FL225AETX(L)............ EURO 22,600

HPDI MOTORS
Z200NETOL(L) ........... EURO 18,635
Z200NETOX(L) ........... EURO 18,928
LZ200NETOX(L) ......... EURO 19,955


ex SOUTH AFRICA I will revert tomorrow.

However, to put the record streight I NEVER SAID that goods in sold in Greece are cheap. I only think that goods sold outside Europe are cheap. Due to the EU thing all goods sold in Europe have similar prices.

[crazyhorse]

Ok Manos can you let us know where /who we get the discount from? and what Model the motor is,if possible could it be in Pounds?so we can see what the savings are.

I will shop around here in the u.k and see what is possible.

If we stick to Yam 225 X long shaft hpdi then we all talking the same numbers.