Petrol to Diesel?

[vjmehra]

We currently have a 2 stroke Yamaha 60HP petrol engine on our RIB (I don't know the exact age, but I do have the serial number, so presumably I can somehow find this out and its definitely older than 10 years).

I believe it is the 60FETO model (Power trim & tilt, autolube).

Given the lack of petrol available on the river I was wondering how plausible it would be to do some sort of exchange for a 4 stroke diesel engine, similar HP ideally.

Is this kind of swap plausible and if so what would I need to think about in terms of pitfalls?

Also, in the perfect world of course I would like to do this for no cost, i.e. I find someone who wants to switch from diesel to petrol. Of course I realise this is not necessarily realistic, so what sort of cost implications are likely if we were to switch to say a 50HP 7 year old Diesel engine (I plucked that age/HP out of thin air, the RIB is a HUMBER 5.5m, happy to listen to suggestions)?

Sorry thats a bit waffley, but if anyone has any advice or perhaps interest I would love to hear your thoughts!

[Jizm]

That yam is probably one of the best motors you could have.

[vjmehra]

I have no problem with the engine, its just the lack of availability of petrol, diesel is so much easier to get hold of!

[Cookee]

It would have to be an inboard and not practical at all to convert without great expense - cheaper to buy an inboard diesel boat.

[Pikey Dave]

I do recall in the dim & distant past seeing diesel outboards, afaik, they were poo, huge, heavy, noisy, underpowered. As Cookee, says, new bote!

Or you could try one of these

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

I do recall in the dim & distant past seeing diesel outboards, afaik, they were poo, huge, heavy, noisy, underpowered. As Cookee, says, new bote!

Or you could try one of these

Not being military are any of these actually diesel?

kerosene, JP-4, JP-5, JP-8, Jet A and Jet B

[longjohn]

No all Esso Blue!

[Razorbill RIBs]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Not being military are any of these actually diesel?

kerosene, JP-4, JP-5, JP-8, Jet A and Jet B

Some one can prob give a fuller response, but AFAIK the JP fuels are miltary diesel alternatives for military use, but with different flash points (safer in use /when stroed in bulk on aircraft carriers say).....I don't believe any of them are a direct replacement for Diesel but can run in Diesel engines....prob with changes required due to lubrication properties etc....

[tonto]

Originally Posted by Razorbill RIBs

Some one can prob give a fuller response, but AFAIK the JP fuels are miltary diesel alternatives for military use, but with different flash points (safer in use /when stroed in bulk on aircraft carriers say).....I don't believe any of them are a direct replacement for Diesel but can run in Diesel engines....prob with changes required due to lubrication properties etc....

We used to carry Jet A1, which is what the run commercial aircraft on, and most of the others are similar with different flashpoints. They are all basically Kerosene types, similar to what you have in a heating oil system at home.

I am told that a diesel will run on it, but smoke a bit.

I was on a ship with a deisel outboard. It was fecking huge, and pushed our 6M rescue boat along at an almighty 6Knots. It was physically the size of a 175HP petrol. Bloody great big gutless piece of crap.

I would buy a set of sails and turn into a WAFFI before I used a diesel outboard.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Not being military are any of these actually diesel?

kerosene, JP-4, JP-5, JP-8, Jet A and Jet B

Dunno, I know kerosene's not a million miles away from diesel, our heating oil delivery docket always says "MUST NOT BE USED AS ROAD FUEL" across it I know that they will

run on whisky

, might be a handy way to get rid of the Christmas Glenfiddich

[wellhouse]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Dunno, I know kerosene's not a million miles away from diesel, our heating oil delivery docket always says "MUST NOT BE USED AS ROAD FUEL" across it I know that they will

, might be a handy way to get rid of the Christmas Glenfiddich

jet/kero has a flash around 40deg and diesel a min spec of 56deg although you will find in most cases it is over 60deg. cfpp,cloud, density and cetane are very different. jet/kero does not contain lubricity additive and as a result i wouldn't use it in a modern diesel, it would rapidly knacker the fuel pump/metering system. Most diesel also contains a performance additive for retail sales. Some military engines are designed to run on both and famously some russian aircraft flew on jet and diesel (you could see them coming miles away by the smoke trail!) Hangover from the second world war, it made fuel logistics easier if everything used the same fuel. Also kero is not jet. Although effectively the sames spec it has an additional smoke spec requirement to avoid carbon build up on boiler wicks.

[chewy]

As Wellhouse said heating fuel/kerosene doesn't have many lubrication properties, I'd pour some two stroke oil in if I was going to use it.
I used to add two stroke oil to normal low sulphur diesel in my Audi and Land Rover, both ran quieter with it with no adverse affects.

[jwalker]

There has been a few diesel outboard motors available over the years, some good and some not so good. The Yanmar range has been successful and is well thought of. I have one as a backup motor to my main inboard diesel engine. It is a bit noisey but diesels are noisier than petrol motors so no surprise there. It is remarkably reliable and never fails to start even after very long periods of inactivity. For you, the downside is that they have considerably less power than your current engine. Mine is 27hp and the larger one is, IIRC, 35hp. Since you say you are on a river, perhaps this would be enough power for your use. Bear in mind also, these engines weigh approximately 90kg, heavy but not entirely out of the question for a 5.5 mtr boat. Good luck with it.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Not being military are any of these actually diesel?

kerosene, JP-4, JP-5, JP-8, Jet A and Jet B

OK - My fault for not asking the question in full and getting a lot of information not relevant!

If the 'Rudes can run the above fuel could they run red diesel? I am guessing that if the above fuels have less lubrication then they would be even better off than with the JP and Jet fuel or am I mistaken?

[wellhouse]

Originally Posted by Cookee

OK - My fault for not asking the question in full and getting a lot of information not relevant!

If the 'Rudes can run the above fuel could they run red diesel? I am guessing that if the above fuels have less lubrication then they would be even better off than with the JP and Jet fuel or am I mistaken?

all of the jp's (jp just shorthand for jet propellant) and jet's you listed are various spec of jet fuel, military and civilian. Since last year the spec in the uk for AD-10 (diesel) and what you call red diesel (DG-10 dyed gas oil) have moved closer together mainly to get over the issues of moving from summer to winter spec diesels when different locations use diesel as the base fuel for dyed gas oil. However, new regulations for dyed gas oil have recently come into being and you now have specs for road use, non road use and marine use (just to make life more interesting:face palm. I won't bore you with the detail as the introduction of bio fuel regulations confuses it further. Depending on the location where the dyed diesel is made, it may contain lubricity additive if it is made from Ad-10 destined for road use and it may contain fame (bio component) that helps lubricity. However, there is a max fame spec for marine diesel and as a result the red diesel (DG-10) may or may not contain enough fame or lubricity additive to run in modern diesel engines depending on where it is made. The spec for dyed diesel is effectively the same as AD-10 (road diesel) but with red dye and markers in it for customs use and no lubricity spec requirement. You would need to check the spec from your supplier and check with evinrude to see if it meets their requirements. Obviously you need to make sure that you are ok to use red diesel depending on application with customs.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by wellhouse

all of the jp's and jet's you listed are various spec of jet, military and civilian. Since last year the spec in the uk for AD-10 (diesel) and what you call red diesel (DG-10 dyed gas oil) have moved closer together mainly to get over the issues of moving from summer to winter spec diesels when different locations use diesel as the base fuel for dyed gas oil. However, new regulations for dyed gas oil have recently come into being and you now have specs for road use, non road use and marine use (just to make life more interesting:face palm. I won't bore you with the detail as the introduction of bio fuel regulations confuses it further. Depending on the location where the dyed diesel is made, it may contain lubricity additive if it is made from Ad-10 destined for road use and it may contain fame (bio component) that helps lubricity. However, there is a max fame spec for marine diesel and as a result the red diesel (DG-10) may or may not contain enough fame or lubricity additive to run in modern diesel engines depending on where it is made. The spec for dyed diesel is effectively the same as AD-10 (road diesel) but with red dye and markers in it for customs use. You would need to check the spec from your supplier and check with evinrude to see if it meets their requirements. Obviously you need to make sure that you are ok to use red diesel depending on application with customs.

I'm going to take that as don't know!

[wellhouse]

Originally Posted by Cookee

I'm going to take that as don't know!

unfortunately it will vary region by region depending on which refinery/company has supplied it. marine gas oil can be upto 1000ppm sulphur which helps alleviate the problem but this is no longer supplied as dyed gas oil 10ppm.

[Rokraider]

I have worked on some Russian military trucks that were fitted with Multi fuel engines. granted they were old technology from the 70-80's, but they were gutless considering the size of engine. My guess is that diesel or multifuel outboards will make little power for their weight and being a fairly rare item could be a pain when it comes toi servicing, parts etc. I am surprised no does a LPG conversion for outboards?

[9D280]

Jumping back momentarily to the original question of Diesel outboards, Yanmar do (did?) a 27 HP diesel O/B, which clocked in at 181 lbs (82Kg)

To put that in perspective, a new Merc 30Hp (4- stroke) is 78Kg

So putting two of the Yanmars on your transom would be much the same as 2 of the above pertol engines. Granted you have a lightweight 2- stroke, so the increase is going to be siomewhat more in the 60Kg mark, but would a sset of doel fins on each engine help to counteract the weight?


Bottom line: If the fuel avaialbility is a key issue, is the extra weight on the transom something you could live with to be able to just pull alongside & top up?

[vjmehra]

Hmm, according to Humber, the max weight we can take is 145kg, so we may be a bit too top heavy there...