Phenolic faced birch ply

[Razorbill RIBs]

Looking at the Atlantic deck.....Is the above a viable alternative to marine ply? It's widely used on narrow boat decks apparently, easily worked, 9 and 12mm thickness.... Has a phenolic smooth underside and a non slip phenolic patterned / coloured phenolic topside.... Would obv need any cut edges treated (west epoxy as per what we've done with marine ply previously).... It's Birch ply inside..... What do the boat builders etc reckon? Would save glassing and flow coating? The original halmatic hulls we're tread master faced teak... Is this a viable alternative?

Advanced Technical Panels

[Jon Tallis]

Looks like the same stuff as 'buffalo board' used for trailer decks. Once the phenolic coating is compromised the timber underneath will rot out pretty quickly as my trailer will testify.
If it was my boat I'd be using the best marine ply I could buy (expensive I know)

[Razorbill RIBs]

Originally Posted by Jon Tallis

Looks like the same stuff as 'buffalo board' used for trailer decks. Once the phenolic coating is compromised the timber underneath will rot out pretty quickly as my trailer will testify.
If it was my boat I'd be using the best marine ply I could buy (expensive I know)

Thank you John, it is very like buffalo board.... It's the birch ply bit which is the problem I guess.... Not too concerned re the price of quality marine ply, it's more that I like the idea of a board which has the finish (robust / non slip /waterproof etc ) bonded on already (both sides) to negate the need to epoxy coat below and glass / flow coat above.... The original halmatic flooring on our PAC was treadmaster covered teak ply.. Was shot when we replaced, but had lasted well really..... Anybody any other suggestions? The honeycomb floor systems are more difficult to fix to aren't they?

A phenolic faced ply like the link but with a high grade marine ply (instead of birch) would be interesting.... Such a product out there I wonder? All suggestions appreciated.

[ShinyShoe]

What thickness is the old deck? i'd have guessed 18mm. you could laminate but you'll be joining 2 x phenolic coatings not 2x ply...

Perhaps 18mm is available too.

you will want to apply something when it wears. so in 2 years it will be flow coated...

Was a thread in 2010: http://www.rib.net/forum/f8/phenolic...ply-35058.html

[Razorbill RIBs]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

What thickness is the old deck? i'd have guessed 18mm. you could laminate but you'll be joining 2 x phenolic coatings not 2x ply...

Perhaps 18mm is available too.

you will want to apply something when it wears. so in 2 years it will be flow coated...

Was a thread in 2010: http://www.rib.net/forum/f8/phenolic...ply-35058.html

Thanks.... saw the old thread, but it didnt really 'get there'....

I have found that Robbins timber will supply any of their marine plywoods (proper marine ply) with a smooth phenolic coating.... however, its not non slip....

I have asked of them (if others here know that would be great):

Is the phenolic coating impact resistant /uv resistant?
Will it allow a flow coat to adhere?

My thinking is that given the issue around quality of ply issue has 'gone away'....If phenolic coating wasnt uv resistant but allowed flow coat it could remove need for glassfibre? and you could cover whole deck with flow coat....

If it was uv resistant and allowed flow coat you could merely mask off and flow coat the traffic areas.....

Am i way off here...makes sense on paper..... am hung up on the idea that adding glass to the deck (if a factory produced alternative is available) is unnecessary.... these arent really structural decks on the halmatics, and i need to be able to screw into it ideally (a problem with the honeycomb products)

Thoughts?

[Razorbill RIBs]

Or this looks promising! Mechanical fixing (accepts screws like wood) and is non slip finish.... You'd see al the screws but less of an issue in a halmatic IMO. Dolphin grey looks good...

Large sheets but main issue is that there isn't any in UK and they prob can't do small orders....

Anyone used / any comments OR know of a similar alternative? Someone mentioned nyloplast board but a search has drawn a blank.... ??

Playground Equipment - Densetec HDPE Grip - non slip - A Fahr Better Solution for Playground Equipment

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by Razorbill RIBs

Large sheets but main issue is that there isn't any in UK and they prob can't do small orders....

Am I missing summat

"Extensive Stockholding

We always carry a large stock of standard panels in our warehouse in the UK and additional stocks available from our US manufacturing plant.

• 300,000 GBP to 550,000 GBP stock in the UK at any one time
• Quantities from 1 sheet to multiple pallets avaiable from UK stock
• Full loads, 20ft and 40ft containers available to order
• Extensive range of stock readily available in a variety of colours and sizes

Sheet Distribution

• No minimum order quantities required for stock sheets
• Full Worldwide sheet distribution coverage

From just 1 sheet to 40ft containers shipped directly from our US factory CIF to your nearest container port. We can supply sheets to fit your requirements large and small.

Subject to account status and stock availability at the time of order, we can usually dispatch stock panels next day, while non-stock panels carry a lead time of between 4-8 weeks depending on the US stock status at the time of order."

[Razorbill RIBs]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Am I missing summat

"Extensive Stockholding

Frustrating isnt it! Have spoken with the importer and their resellers... none about at mo (and we prob dont need enough to warrant an order)....

Im also interested in Coosa Bluewater board, but cant find a UK stockist either.... it seems that our friends over the pond are heavily into wood alternatives....are we being slow to adapt, or am i looking in the wrong places

[cptsideways]

I'd be inclined to go for a plastic alternative, the sort of stuff used in the chemical industries. There are also some interesting plastic woods out there, so you could have a teak style deck thats actually structural & wont rot.

[Razorbill RIBs]

Originally Posted by cptsideways

I'd be inclined to go for a plastic alternative, the sort of stuff used in the chemical industries. There are also some interesting plastic woods out there, so you could have a teak style deck thats actually structural & wont rot.

Been plugging away looking at products and the Densetec is front runner.... They quote an expansion of 1.6mm per linear metre per 10 degrees c temp rise..... I have found a UK comparable product now recommended by an HPDE boat manufacturer (not specifically Marine, but looking into it).... They cite a 2mm expansion per linear metre.... I know ply can expand etc, is that going to be a real world issue I wonder? They are cautious and dont want to commit.... it would be screwed won at say 200mm centres into the halmatic stringers (solid /lots of)..... Anyone any thoughts?


If any of our US members are reading this have you used /seen this used /used in this way?

Thanks

[Jon Tallis]

HDPE looks like a good option if you're going to secure it with fasteners only but HDPE is designed to be fusion welded and can't be bonded with conventional adhesives as it has very low surface energy. There are specialist adhesives out there which will bond it but they are very expensive. There's a 3M product you can use which is discussed here - http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/7...hite-paper.pdf

[Razorbill RIBs]

Originally Posted by Jon Tallis

HDPE looks like a good option if you're going to secure it with fasteners only but HDPE is designed to be fusion welded and can't be bonded with conventional adhesives as it has very low surface energy. There are specialist adhesives out there which will bond it but they are very expensive. There's a 3M product you can use which is discussed here - http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/7...hite-paper.pdf

Sadly looks like hdpe is too much of a risk for me.... The expansion issue (cited as between 1.6mm to 2mm on different brands.... All per linear metre and per 10 degree temp difference is a real problem. Apparently been known to sheer heads off self tapper fixings! Solution is to oversize holes and fit with a large cover washer... No good for deck....

In the absence of any uk supplier if coosa board (Germany closest) and 3m not selling their version of coosa in the uk (why!?!?!?) I am reluctantly going to have to run with Robbins elite (the 25 year guarantee marine stuff.... Not wholly convinced)....

Really frustrating that what seems to be common products aren't available here....

[Razorbill RIBs]

We've decided to redeck the Arctic first....

12mm Robbins super elite as previous post. The 12mm is around £180 /sheet plus vat, but is very good quality /has a 25 year guarantee.... It's all getting 4 coats of West System (coloured with black pigment) and then topside coveted with the new ultra grip treadmaster, epoxy glued down....

Finished stripping the deck on Sunday, finished dry fitting the deck today, ready for Epoxy tomorrow....

[Razorbill RIBs]

The cold weather has meant we had to build a tent in the shed, heated and dehumidified to 18 / 20 degrees for the epoxy work....

Replaced any stringers, 3 coats of epoxy on the substructure, 3 on the underside (2 on top so far)..... Finished bonding /screwing it all down today ready for the final black epoxy coat tomorrow before we start laying the ultra grip treadmaster.... Bit of a phaff lining up the a frame slowed us up this morning, but pleased how it's progressing

[Razorbill RIBs]

I've no idea why it flipped previous pic!.... Another

[Razorbill RIBs]

3rd and 4th (final) epoxy top coats (black epoxy).... Temps in the shed meant we built a heated temporary tent (achieving around 15 degrees c, dropping to 12 degrees c on the coldest nights.... The fast hardener worked well at these temps.

Scotchbrite off the Amine layer today then begin laying the ultra grip treadmaster....