pioner multi

[hector]

Hi all

I know its not exactly a RIB, but its similar. Kind of!
Anyway, does anyone know anything about older models of Pioner Multis, specifically did they all come with a wooden transom? Is this type of transom designed to be easily replaceable and are they any good?
Do the older models suffer the same way old wilson flyers and dorys with double skins and foam fillings do with rot and water ingress, therefore becoming very heavy and soft?
Is there anything else that should be looked at or any specific problem areas? Can they be operated with a tiller controlled outboard?
What are they like in a bit of a chop?

thanks for any advice

Hector.

[Richard Selman]

Peterhead sailing club has had a Pioner Multi for about 10 years. I rigged it when it was new and kept it running for most of that time. I think that they are excellent club rescue boats where keeping it running whilst loads of inexperienced member all have a go at breaking it is important. Fantastic for working with ground gear/chains/anchors etc. The lowering front would make it very easy to pull a badly injured person on board (luckily we have never had need to). Loads of space on the completely flat deck.

We got the Pioner after both our Ribs had been vandalised. Both opened up with a knife from bow to stern. We also had frequent problems with people bursting tubes with ground gear and ramming pontoons.

We have a yam FT50HP (high thrust version) on the back. It was the max the transom was rated for at the time. I think that they now allow 80HP. 50HP is only just enough to make it plane if it clean hulled and lightly loaded - it really needs more.

The transom should be easy to replace but you probably would have to cut most of it out with a saw and then the bits recessed into the plastic can be chisled out.

It flexes quite a bit in the chop and hits hard at speed due to the cathedral hull.

It is almost impossible to break - we have had members crunching it off rocks and have had damage to the engine & prop but the hull has never needed any work.

The deck is above the water line so it stays dry. The deck seal goes after a while and needs to be resealed to keep the hull from collecting water (easy to drain when out of the water).

Sits higher on the trailer than a RIB so its harder to launch and recover. A draw bar extension pole would be very useful if you were doing it a lot. Ours is moored on the marina.

For the first year you don't get any marine growth. They waxy surface keeps the critters off. However they keep at it and stick on eventually but then its difficult to get the antifouling to stick.

For short range club or work boat boat use in waters that are not too rough then they are great but nothing like a RIB for speed/rough water/long range capabilities.

If I recall correctly, the bottom of the hull is not foam filled so does not pick up water there.

It struggles to get on the plane so you would probably need a tiller extension to get the weight right. Note that the standard wheel console is nice and neat and takes up very little space (the seat is the battery box).

Richard

[Richard Selman]

Funny, I just saw a red Multi parked outside the petrol station in Aviemore on Friday. Had a 70 or 75 HP engine in dark blue Yamaha type colours however it looks like it had a jet/ducted prop arrangement instead of a normal prop. Looked ideal for rescue boat work - anyone know what engine or drive this was?

Richard

[Poly]

Originally Posted by hector

anyone know anything about older models of Pioner Multis, specifically did they all come with a wooden transom?

I don't know Pioneers inside out but I'm reasonably confident that they all have plywood transoms.

Is this type of transom designed to be easily replaceable and are they any good?

I'm fairly sure its the same as mine - it drops into a U shaped channel and is then bolted through the transom and the hull itself. So should be easy to replace. Of course there may be some tricky detail I am missing from my cursory glances.

Do the older models suffer the same way old wilson flyers and dorys with double skins and foam fillings do with rot and water ingress, therefore becoming very heavy and soft?

No. Dory's were built from two pieces (hull and deck) which were then glued together (and filled with foam). These are single rotomolded pieces so there is no seam/join between the hull and deck - it is one piece. I don't think Pioneer fill the hull void with foam either (some rototmolded boats do and others don't).

Can they be operated with a tiller controlled outboard?

maybe! I've never seen one that didn't have a console, and as I recall the engine is quite far back and away from the obvious "perches" so it probably wouldn't be comfy. The standard a-frame would probably make it impossible if fitted. There may be better rotmolded boats either from pioneer or elsewhere if you really want tiller steering.

What are they like in a bit of a chop?

like other cathedral hulled boats so depends what you call a chop - but it isn't going to be mistaken for a good rib! Again if that is what you want then there are other boats with the same hull manufacturing principle that would be better. As far as I know nobody else offers the landing craft type "bow door" though.

Originally Posted by Richard Selman

Funny, I just saw a red Multi parked outside the petrol station in Aviemore on Friday. Had a 70 or 75 HP engine in dark blue Yamaha type colours however it looks like it had a jet/ducted prop arrangement instead of a normal prop. Looked ideal for rescue boat work - anyone know what engine or drive this was?

Richard

Yamaha offer a conversion/option that puts a jet drive on the leg of their outboards. (Other manufacturers may do the same).

[Richard Selman]

The transom just sits in a U shaped recess in the plastic and is clamped in with 2 8mm eye bolts near the top IIRC. The boat was only 1 or 2 year old when I swapped the 40 HP for the 50 HP and during the work intended to pull out the transom and give it a good clean and epoxy coat as the bottom 2" gets some marine growth. Even with it relatively new the plywood would not slide out (I had the engine lift pulling on bolts through the engine mount holes lifting the weight of the boat). Either has lots of sealant or the wood had swelled. Gave up and just did what I could with it in place. Its fine 10 years on.....Chain saw is waiting for when it finally goes.


Richard

[Richard Selman]

[QUOTE=Polwart;410201]I As far as I know nobody else offers the landing craft type "bow door" though.
[QUOTE]

There used to be a cat RIB with a landing craft bow door like this I thought. I seem to recall there was a place out on the west coast that sold them - on Skye perhaps? Remember talking to them a while ago when thinking about my first real RIB.

Not sure the door would be there after a proper stuff though.

Richard

[TonyC]

we have 4 pioner multis - 3 with 60's with a wide console & seat, and one 2nd hand with a 50 (with doel fins) and a small console.

50 always seems underpowered to me, but even the 60 has trouble if you have more than 3-4 adults on board.

flat bottom, so rough ride in chop, but all the boats are over 5/6 yrs old and going ok.

The front door is great for both wheelchairs and for retrieving persons from the water (especially divers & parachutists) as the door has hand holds to drag yourself in.

[Richard Selman]

Just got to watch your fingers near the edge as in any chop the door opens and closes like a big mouth as the door floats. Thought about drilling holes in the door to make it flood or to put a gas strut in to dampen to movement.

We saw one up Inverness way that was (ab)used as a paint boat / fender for a much larger steel vessel. Complete mess but seemed still structurally fine.




Richard