Possible eBay scam

[boristhebold]

I spotted a rib described as a delta for sale, infact two adverts different pricing but with identical pictures, both gone now, why cant ebay do something about all these scams ?

[Ovey]

Originally Posted by gareth9702

I came across a different scam when I was searching for a rib. I saw a boat on eBay and decided to do some background research on the model. This lead me to an advert for the same model of boat but with a very low asking price - perhaps a third of the true value. I emailed to ask about it and got a story that it was the deceased grandfather's boat and located in Cardiff but the seller was somewhere else. I then looked at the photographs and realised they were the same as the ebay boat. The ebay boat was located in the Midlands and seemed genuine. It was clearly a scam but I could not see how it could work unless the boat was bought without viewing and money transferred before collection. Or did I miss something?

If you had progressed you'd have found that the seller insists on paying through eBay which guarantees your protection (it doesn't), and if you'd have asked to view you would have found that they haven't changed their address on eBay since moving to the Outer Hebrides or other remote place but you're welcome to visit any time (except the day you say you can as they're away on business that day). Any attempt to ask to phone would result in them having no landline due to just moving & a recently lost/stolen/cut off mobile. Free delivery is probably offered too.

It's common.


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[Poly]

Originally Posted by boristhebold

why cant ebay do something about all these scams ?

what do you think they should do? They don't actually read every advert, and if they did they wouldn't be expert enough to know.

With my cynical head on they get paid for listing so it's not in their interests to make it harder to list. They also thrive on search engine traffic so every forum link pointing out a scam helps a little.

Very few real buyers will be scammed (because anyone with that sort of cash should be smart enough to be suspicious), but some will have their time wasted. If you follow ebay advice and use common sense you will normally be OK. Only greedy people who think they are scamming ebay out of fees will transact that way - why would ebay want to protect them?

Some people who's account is hacked might get stung for fees (although I am sure most get them refunded) but they should use better passwords and security.

The people responding to and posting enquiries are either automated systems or at the bottom of a very long chain (probably with a success based pyramid selling model). everyone here who likes to wind them up is probably not hurting the real scammer at all.

Real sellers could do more to protect themselves and future buyers - e.g. watermarking images, using listing details and descriptions that make it harder for people to cut n paste, etc...

EBay could possibly do more, but would you be happy to double your fees to protect other people (because nobody will admit to being silly enough to get scammed themselves).

[boristhebold]

There are alot of things ebay could do which dont involve actual people reading through the adverts and a lot of technology which could assist, they dont because they just want the money and dont care like most companies out there offerring a so called market place on the internet.

For example using the concepts and technology that banks for example have in place to prevent fraud or at least flag something that looks like fraud. They could run an automtive process which flags up say really bad grammar, images appearing in other adverts within a time period, adverts posted from known scammer email addreses or Identified Ip addresses, flag certain countries as known risk areas, flag payment options etc etc, all would score certain points and be weighted, running soem type of process like that would flag obvious scammers from real people most of the time.

So for example if advert A has been posted from Nigeria, using an email address or IP address which has been identified in the past as a possible scammer and has pictures which are also on 3 other sites and the content has bad grammar and payment method states bank transfer or wetern union then maybe that flags with 50 points which maybe over say some threshold of 30 so its flagged as a possible scam which they could then state on the advert or auto post back to originator to address before posting. None of which would involve any manual process, all could be done automaticly and could easily help the situation.

[ShinyShoe]

Pretty sure they do some of that. But some causes issues:

Stock images. Not an issue for boats but issue for other things.

Bad grammer I suspect is less easy to spot and what about all the chinglish that is posted by legit sellers..

Their best bet is to reduce risk of hacking. They could do with enforcing higher security passwords and captcha on password attempts > 3. But I suspect the easiest way to hack an eBay account is to hack someone else's server nick insecure password and email and set a not off to look for identical or similar fleabay ones..

[Poly]

Originally Posted by boristhebold

For example using the concepts and technology that banks for example have in place to prevent fraud or at least flag something that looks like fraud.

and of course no legitimate bank customer has ever been frustrated by over zealous bank anti-fraud checks (at least when HSBC leave me standing in a US airport unable to pay for goods, I can console myself it was "me" they were aiming to protect). Frustrating your real customers with no benefit to them is not good business practice. Especially when Amazon / Gumtree and others will be happy to provide an alternative marketplace and I'm sure google can't be far behind!

They could run an automtive process which flags up say really bad grammar,

but bad grammar isn't the issue in "these" ebay scams is it? because they just cut'n'paste from similar ads? the vaguely intelligent buyer will be naturally suspicious of someone selling several thousand pounds of product who can't string a sentence together.

images appearing in other adverts within a time period,

The scammers will have worked around that within the course of a day. Apply an auto crop, or auto watermark tool and the image is no longer a match or use images that are older than the cut off.

adverts posted from known scammer email addreses

ebay doesn't post adverts from "email addresses" it posts from accounts. When an account is identified as a scammer ebay closes the account (and blocks the email address). Of course its really easy to create new email addresses, and some people will be persuaded to contact people on email addresses not associated with the account, but ebay can't help buyers who ignore their advice.

Identified Ip addresses,

I'm sure they will have IP blocking capability but its not difficult to (a) use a proxy; (b) use legitimate IP addresses from hacked users; (c) use dynamically assigned IP addresses; (d) use shared networks with potentially legit users you don't want to block.

flag certain countries as known risk areas,

but the ads you are worried about don't appear to be "foreign" - they are posted on ebay.co.uk from uk registered accounts.

flag payment options etc etc,

certain payment options already do this. I think it is mandatory to offer paypal (which is notorious for favouring the buyer in disputes - offering them significant protection). Of course if the buyer / seller discuss other payment options "in private" ebay can't help.

running soem type of process like that would flag obvious scammers from real people most of the time.

but actually almost any human buyer will spot those signs too... ...the scams most likely to succeed are the ones where the advert is a clone of a legit ad, has hacked a legit account and only at the final stages of a deal does the user get persuaded to use a non-ebay sales process to close the deal.

...so its flagged as a possible scam which they could then state on the advert or auto post back to originator to address before posting.

don't assume that the scammers are naive or individuals, I believe they will be pretty tech savvy and likely running multiple parallel scams, any feedback you give helps them learn the scam detection algorithm and work around it. Meanwhile some legit users will inevitably become false positives.

None of which would involve any manual process, all could be done automaticly and could easily help the situation.

The head of security at ebay must be delighted to have such innovated solutions offered, he'll probably be wondering why nobody in his team came up with it himself. I'd get your application in now: Director GTM & Security Ops EBay jobs in San Jose at eBay Inc. with insight like that you might even be able to negotiate on the location if you don't fancy San Jose ;-)

[Poly]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

But I suspect the easiest way to hack an eBay account is to hack someone else's server nick insecure password and email and set a not off to look for identical or similar fleabay ones..

Unlikely to be brute force attacks:

• Phishing.
• People who use the same password and email address for every site.
• Hacked email account.
• Potentially people who hand over their ebay account details to "sniping services" although I've never heard of them being misused.

[biffer]

I can honestly say I haven't a clue about this sort of thing, what I can tell you is I've recently had about 600 emails from people who think that I have emailed them, I've had to close down info@customrib.com while they get fed up with using it


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